The Love Problems We Face: Dr. Loren Weiner on Returning to Spirit

Transcript auto-generated from the episode audio; formatting has been cleaned up, but wording is verbatim.

I'm Cynthia Marks, and I head up the Holistic Psychoanalysis Foundation, established by my late husband, Doctor Bernard Bail. Welcome to And Now Live. Today, Doctor Loren Weiner is back with us again. Always so important and wonderful. And we're going to talk about the ever so important topic of love in our world today. It must be clear to all of us that we're lacking in that. And we want to help everyone find a way to love receiving and giving. So. Hello, Loren. Hi. Thank you for having me. Good to be back. Thank you for being here. It's always a gift.

Thank you. Okay. So when you talk about love, very big topic means different things to different people. But I think we could all agree. We'll make it very simple. All the good things, all the good feelings, all the ways in which we feel attended to, supported, thought about, nurtured, wanted, embraced. All of those good feelings. Love. Yes. So one of the things when we look around the world right now, obviously we can tell, you know, this isn't new, but there are so many places where so many say terrible, terrible things are going on and that we have wars, we have starvation, we have everything in between.

And every place where you have things that are not any of the good things. I said, you have pathology. So any place there's a war, there's an absence of love. You have pathology. That's what it is. So wherever love isn't, pathology is okay. So pathology, meaning something's wrong. Like an illness. So if there isn't love, we have illness. And that is a really important idea for everybody in the whole world to think about. We don't have political problems. We have a love problem. We have a lack of love. And that is going to create all of the problems we see.

Anything you can talk about, if it's a problem, then there's a lack of love behind it. There's something almost comforting about that, to think that at the root of all of this is a lack of love. So that is something that all of us really have the ability to address. That's right. I think every person sitting at home, because what can I do about the way the government runs, whether people have homes, whether there's enough food? Very hard. But if we start to say, well, actually you can participate and you can have an enormous change because it's about going inside of yourself and seeing where am I loving?

And perhaps where am I not right? How am I relating to the people around me? Can I do this in a loving way? And am I able to receive love? Very important because a lot of us are not. Not only might we have trouble giving it, we have trouble receiving. And that's a very important piece. You need to be able to receive it so that you can give it. And do you think also at the root of this is really honestly knowing. What love is? I think that is a very, very important piece and crucial, crucial to changing things. And part of the problem is that generationally, there were so many tough things going on in the world that there wasn't a lot of room for love.

There wasn't a lot of room for softness. And what we perceive love to be is not necessarily love. That's right. We've talked a lot about this. You know, we've gone over dreams that show that a lot of times people are working with a definition of love that is so far from actually feeling loving. And so that's not just with romantic relationships, where you might find somebody and think, oh, you love me only to, you know, realize, oh, but this is really just pain called love. But it happens all over. And if it's in each of us, then it is in each and every institution that we build.

That's the problem is, you know, it's not just one person. You really get the collective. So all of us, and if we are all in some way compromised, meaning we didn't get enough love, we didn't get enough support. And I'm not talking about infantilizing people. I'm just simply saying, you know, treating people with respect and love and having people's feelings count, caring about another human being, letting that other human being have a say in how his or her life goes. Now, the problem is, if each person is compromised in some way didn't get that experience, then we're going to come together and it amplified.

So now we've got a collective or a whole group of people. We've got cities and countries and all of this that are carrying an idea that perhaps what is love is wrong. You know what love is, is wrong or that they don't deserve love. We talked about that too in masochism that very early on, because we imagine as we take an imprint from our mothers. I've talked a lot about what imprints are. We can talk about it again, but quickly. If if you take an imprint from your mother and you hold all of her unprocessed unconscious, unbeknownst to her unconscious turmoil, you imagine you caused that in her.

So you take it to relieve her. But then you think I'm bad. I caused it. And that is your way of surviving. It is your way of surviving. You have to take it from her. This all happens emotionally between a mother and infant. So you have to take it from her because you imagine to relieve her suffering ensures you live. Because if mom suffers too much, she stops feeding you. She stops attending to you. You die. So we have a very foundational survival piece that makes this all so tough. And if you can really know that to be true, what you've just said that there's this tie and this trauma, this information, this stress that you are holding for your mom in utero is truly happening.

I mean, if you just think about that, the awesomeness of that connection. Right, and how you could fill that with love instead. I mean, if that there's that canal and you put the good stuff in there. That's right. If we've got this connection, you take in the trouble. But with that, you take in the idea that you are bad, you caused the pain because babies don't know beyond themselves. You caused the pain. Now we're all going to walk around feeling well, how do we deserve love? We're fundamentally trouble. So we've got that now. Yes. Look at that beautiful connection.

Right. And if a mother, all mothers are truly supported and loved and given everything they need to feel safe and secure during a pregnancy, so much less trouble, right? And maybe that mother even has a lot of room then to love this emerging life, to really love it and not be worried about oh, but what if, what if I can't pay the rent? And what if we get evicted and my husband and I are fighting? And what if I can't sleep enough and take care of this baby and I've got to go to work, you know, all these things, and we just call that life. And okay.

But if there was a lot of support in there and nurturance and love mom, I say oh I'm so excited I get and and I get to really focus on that. I get to stay in that state longer to give that to the baby so that if the baby happens to feel it's a problem because it did get an imprint, at least we can ameliorate a lot of that. Maybe eventually we get to a place where that's not happening the way it is now. One of the big pieces that Bail brought into this idea is that this connection to mom and mom being all powerful. All right, so we must save mom to stay alive.

All of that is true in a physical level, but also it he felt that it was really a slightly removed sense of how we're supposed to connect to spirit. And so as human beings got separated from spirit, because that's what he thought, that we got separated and really our job is to now go back towards Union for evolution. He felt we had to separate and focus on one in our separateness, but that our real task now is to come back into union. And that means connecting with spirit. But human beings doing this separation. And the way we put with an imprint and the way we responded to it, we put mom in for spirit.

So we have a union with mom in a way that he felt really. Next we have to have a union with the divine. So this separation then, was that a matter of survival as a human race? We have these things that we need to attend to, like putting food on the table, raising our children. And that took us away from spirit. And just the idea of survival was what we were led by. I think he put a lot of ideas together in a sort of long history of man. In the way he felt that that we started, you know, as one, but that our evolution required that we separate and early, early man trying to begin to think and put ideas together and look at cause and effect and see the fire comes.

Is it only bad? Eventually we figure out, or maybe we can use it. We have to figure out how to make it. You know, all sorts of things that took our attention, all sorts of things that we were trying to deduce and figure out from observation. That sort of evolution didn't lend itself to only being in union. But I think he felt that eventually that's what we had to do once, once we could figure out the separation well enough, then the job was to return. And we're getting there. And that's that's where we are. And so I think there's a lot of turmoil now.

The feeling right now when you look around is so many things are starting to come apart. Not working for the people, I mean simply not working. And there have always been big groups of people that things didn't work for. But I think that now you look and there's so much divide, so many areas where things aren't working that it's sort of saying, all right, this whole system we built the whole way we've been thinking about everything is just not the way we're supposed to do it. So we have to start thinking in a new way. The ideas that or what he wanted to bring was through psychoanalysis and through looking at dreams, was the idea of getting back in touch with yourself.

So a union there, understanding how you got separated, how your relationship with your mother from the earliest moments, perhaps in utero, perhaps at birth, and what had to happen there to emotionally take care of a mother? Splits us from ourselves, and that echoes the way he felt we were split from the divine. And so it's all then about the return to union. Because we have been spending much of our lives just managing the stress and the trauma that we've been given. We've been using that, living our lives by that. Let me just continue to support all this stuff.

We manage the split with our intellect because the split that happens so early at birth for us splits us off from our feelings. Now, hopefully, if you're lucky, not completely. You also then are carrying another person's feelings so you are further separated from your own because you have to take in a bundle of your mother's, but they're not yours. They're really hers from her whole life. And all of the things that you know were upsetting to her. And again, we're not trying to project all this negativity on women. This is simply because moms do all the work of carrying the babies.

Yeah. So if dads carried the babies, then we would be talking about the imprint from dad. Dads do give an imprint. It's just that you can think about the baby first is marinating in the mother and all of her feelings and everything going on is all attached to mother, because that's where the baby starts. But the mother sweeps in the father unconsciously. And then, of course, baby begins to meet not only the father, but the rest of the family upon coming into the world. So we have all of that. But this whole idea now is to say all of the things we used well in a split state, meaning not fully connected to our own feelings.

All of the things we used in that state had to do with intellect. So we have an amazing world. From an intellectual point of view. We can do so much. We can grow enough food for every single person we can. We have enough resources and money to build as many homes as we want to build. We can start and stop wars if we want to. We have to want to. But all of that is intellectual, and the piece that's missing and the reason all of that continues to basically repeat and go in circles. We just have another war in another place and another war in another place, and another group of people being displaced, abused, put down.

We just cycle through this everywhere in the world is because it's all imposed, able to manage in the intellectual or outside realm, all of it. You will not solve it there, because it has to do with how each and every person feels inside how you feel you are allowed to live your life. How much love are you allowed to have? How much are you allowed to give? How connected are you allowed to feel? How happy can you be in your job, relationship, work of any sort that you do, and all of that is controlled by your inner world or your unconscious? So that is that all knowing piece of us that records everything we've ever been through and holds it so it holds an imprint, which would be all of this pain that tells you your limitations.

I'm not to be loved. I'm not to be successful. I'm not to have a happy life. I'm not to feel connected. I'm not to feel fulfilled. Those types of messages, we've got that in there. And we also have happily, your connection to the divine and the space to come back into union, not just with yourself, but with spirit and all of that, that coming back to yourself, connecting back not just with your intellectual side, but your feminine side. The part that can receive. That applies to all of us. That applies to all of us. Yes, women and men, both can have a masculine and feminine side.

They do different things, but we need the feminine. We've been all masculine. We're mostly masculine and we really need the feminine, the feelings, the softness, the compassion and the ability to receive love. Because part of all this pain has kept people from receiving love. And if they don't receive it, they don't have it to give. Somehow we have to figure out a way to not equate the feminine with weakness. True. That's true. I think we have a lot of misconceptions about how everything works and what the definition of everything is right. If we don't know what love is, a lot of the time we say, oh, but I love you.

Now I just going to do mean things to you. Take things away from you, not let you meet your potential. But I do it because I love you. Well, we've got just clearly wrong definitions. So we all have to learn and that's what we need to do in the words, look around and say, okay, do you like how it's going? If you don't, then start inside. Yeah it is. What you see outside is basically representative of the turmoil inside. All of it. It's the turmoil inside of us and it is secondary to the turmoil. It arises out of the turmoil we felt when we were first entering into the world.

And we had to get hit with all of mom's troubles. Now, she didn't do this on purpose. As we said, this is not conscious, but we happened to be really interesting in that we are all connected unconsciously. Now we see glimpses of that. People go, oh, I'm telepathic. Okay, you might be, but guess what? We all could be. And it isn't about knowing, you know, the lotto numbers or what someone's thinking. It's about connecting on a level below the surface of feeling between two people or groups of people. How do people get to know that? To to realize that as a truth, there's nothing tangible about it, you know.

So that's. That's right. It's not out in this sort of hard science. Let me see. I can't hold it. That's right. You really kind of have to take a leap. And yes, in this investigation and open yourself to new ideas. New ideas, lots of new ideas that we are much more than you can see. But we had to learn about a lot of new ideas. You can't see electricity. Yeah. Seems to be there. Can't see magnetism. We know it exists. So I think, you know, it's just asking that people take a new idea in that I think is a is a good thing to do. So if we can think about ourselves as having been separated inside and fundamentally separated from spirit, then we know the job is to come back together.

And you don't want to be separated from spirit. This isn't about religion. You don't want to be separated from spirit because that is the source of pure love. That is all love. So there's no angry God or love. And we have the capacity because we have an unconscious. We have the capacity. If we clean that out and get enough of the junk out of the way to connect right to spirit, now, everybody could clean up some of the junk inside just from being human pain, suffering, you know, clean some of that up. You open up a space to connect to pure love.

Well, then maybe some of these problems that have eluded us for all these years. How how do you stop having wars? How do you stop having starving children? Well, guess what, I think if you're connected to a lot of pure love, those become non issues. What do you mean? How do you stop wars? You don't go to war. It's an impossibility then, right? You don't have starving children because we have the ability to feed everybody. Why would you have starving children? Right. It would make no sense. It would make no sense. So we're really saying you have to shift everything you've ever used as the way you've done things.

The whole system has to go realign yourself with spirit and all of these things we've made into problems stop being problems. They don't exist in a world where you're using pure love to make the institutions and the rules there. It is also, I think, something comforting about this idea of what you see going on in the world, representing what's going on inside. And when you look at the world and you see all of the troubles that we're faced with, it's overwhelming. It's overwhelming. Where do I begin? I'm this big. But if you say all of that's happening inside me, okay, let me take a look there.

This is something. This is my domain. I can do something about this. Then you have power. Yeah. There's agency. And that's really the only way we can address all of these things that are going on outside in our physical world. Yes. And because every person running a government also has an imprint. There are people. Right? No one's immune. Nobody's immune. Every single person. If you're here, has an imprint. You all came from a mother and you came from a mother who was alive, lived a life. Not everything went perfectly. And it all went into her unconscious.

And she came stacked with a bunch of stuff. That's right. This is this is life. So if we can just know that we're not blaming anybody. I don't need to blame. But you need to understand that you are then carrying all of this pain, and that's going to make you behave in a certain way, not just in the ways you limit yourself, but the ways you treat other people. You've had an enormous amount of pain. You may have to look and see, oh, well, do I share that pain with the people around me in ways that isn't appropriate? Or am I chasing a bunch of people who are not going to treat me well, and then I'm going to suffer, and this is just going to continue a cycle of pain.

And somebody once told me that was love. I'm going to treat you badly until I don't. And right, that's me loving you, right? So there you can imagine there are so many ways that we are not aligned with love. And if we're not aligned with love, we're not aligned with spirit. This is a question you don't have to answer. Or you can. And some of us may know and some of us may not. What would you say is the difference between spirit and religion? Religion is manmade. The problem with that is that man puts all of his or her experiences, unconscious experiences into whatever institution we make.

So we make governments and we make churches, we make synagogues, we make mosques. We, you know, religion. But it's the same people building all the institutions. And if those are coming from people who have been disconnected from their true selves because of this imprint and this problem, then even with the best intentions, we know problems are going to come in and not everybody has the best intentions anyway. So we just know it's going to inherently have problems. That's okay. But you have to know that, you know, but we tend to just blindly believe things, believe that our government is taking care of us.

We believe that our religious leaders no have more wisdom than everybody else. And often that's true. You know, often we have very smart people. We may have very sensitive people, but most of the time that isn't those people. There's not enough of those people to run everything. And so we know it's just, you know, going to be people like everybody else struggling with problems. And a lot of times problems they don't know about because it's in the unconscious. Yes. And when it's in the unconscious, it's so sad, so close to who you are. You don't know there's a difference.

So I would simply say if there's any anything that isn't pure love anywhere where you're told, oh, you can't do that, break that rule, you'll be punished or anything like that. That's man. That's a human being. God doesn't do that. God is pure love. So that's where I make the distinction. So, you know, hopefully if there's an organized religion that is offering that, wonderful. If it isn't, I would say, well, then it may just be that the people that set up the religion were out of line, not aligned with true love because of the problem of being human.

Yes, with their own imprints and all of us, I think without knowing better, search for places where our imprint is supported because that's what's comfy. Yes, an imprint is a very specific way of defining what happened, how it all went, sort of the technical piece. But I think a lot of people in psychology or anybody, you know, thinking about how we repeat patterns, knows we go for what we're used to. We can fight it. We can say we don't want it, but it you know, it always turns up. That's how human beings work. That's why this is so tricky. If it were easy to say, oh, but here's what love is.

And now go out and find it and you go, oh, well, I didn't know I was working with it, you know, an incorrect definition. Now I will go and of course, I can find it doesn't work quite that easily. Wish it did. So what we, you know, the way I have been taught to do it is to look at dreams. And the reason we use the dream is because it is a product of the unconscious. I mean, everything is really a product of the unconscious, but it gets you a direct line. And what it does is bypass the brain. And when I say brain, what I really mean is the intellect.

The intellect is really good at rationalizing things, explaining it away, making it look good. But the unconscious will tell me, but this is a loving person, or this isn't the unconscious will give you some clues about how you really feel. And if you've been split off from your feelings, your conscious mind may not get those messages may think, oh well, but you told me you love me, so I trust you. Let's go. Oh wait, you just beat me up. But you said you love me, so it must be okay. I give a very, very simple example. But you just to give you the way it's working.

The unconscious may say danger, danger. Don't talk to this person. Now we need to get you reconnected with that part of your unconscious that can warn you, that can say, they don't know what love is. Don't do it. And we so desperately want that to be true. When that person who just treated us so horribly finally says, well, I, you know, I really do love you, right? You want that to be true, right? That's right. You you want to believe that that person can act lovingly towards you in a consistent way. The evidence, however, may show the person can't.

And so if you are to split from your true self, you may or may not be able to act on the data, you may not see the data, and you may not be able to act on it. So what we're trying to do with a dream. And so once you get there and you get a dream, what you're looking at is, all right, what is going on in the unconscious? What does this person need to know or understand to get reconnected to his or her true self? I did bring some dreams. I have a patient who was kind enough to share. These are, snippets of sessions, so I'll just simply give you the dream.

If we were really going through a whole session, there would be a discussion. I want to hear everything about the person. I don't analyze dreams in a vacuum. Meaning I need to know something about you. What's been going on in your life, why you might have this dream now and then. Also get your associations to the dream. And that means you tell me the dream. And then I would say, well, what comes to your mind about it? And then if you can, you just let whatever comes come, because the unconscious will share information. Sometimes it seems patients will say, oh, but this.

I don't know why this popped into my mind. This seems like it would have nothing to do with it, but the unconscious knows it has something to do with it. So we gather information, and what you're doing is gathering all kinds of information to see. So what is the person really talking about? What is this dream all about, and how do you present it so that the mind can grow. So typically by now with the patient you would really know who that person is in terms of what they've presented to you. You've spent a lot of time just finding out who they are and what their lives are about.

Yes. And both consciously so I want to hear a history, you know, and I want to hear about your everyday life. And unconsciously, I want to hear all the dreams. So what we're getting is your emotional truth. So it isn't just, oh, I feel this way. So this must be true. That's conscious. Sometimes it's true, but sometimes people have feelings about situations and they're way off. So I think we have to be very careful there. Unconsciously, though, we are getting a much more truthful emotional depiction of the person's life and makeup. So we go there now.

Yes. So this patient has been in treatment a long time. This patient knows her emotional story. That doesn't mean she isn't still fighting. And when I say that you would never know to look at the outside life, everything seems to be going fine. But where she is fighting is internally. And what she's fighting for is to feel strong enough and free enough to be her true self everywhere, both inside and outside. And what she's up against are all of the rules that an imprint gave her at birth that said things like, you won't be smart enough, you won't be successful, you won't have love.

She had all of these. But she's consciously aware of the fact that she wants to undo all of it. Yes, and she works very hard and so this is not what people typically think about in therapy. We're not just going to relieve anxiety or depression. Those are very valid reasons to go. But you may get to a point where you go, okay, I understand why I felt anxious and depressed, and I realized that that is connected to an imprint in me, and I realized that I can even go further once I'm, let's say, more or less symptom free, get to really develop my true self and my dreams will lead me.

And they'll tell me when I've had a victory and I grow and I, you know. And I'll see where I am. Often the monsters chasing me, trying to pull me back into, you know, the cave and say, no, you don't get to do that. And most of us aren't used to thinking about it that way, but we get pulled back because when we took this imprint, it was sort of like making an agreement. I said, okay, this imprint is awful. Tuck it away. We'll never touch it again. And it saved my life and it saved my mother's life. So we've got all kinds of good reasons to never touch it again.

We put it away, but we live our lives guided by it. That's right. So we hide it under the bed. Think it's hidden? Think we deactivated the bomb. But it's not true. It's broadcasting directions and rules about how we live all the time. So we've got all of this that we think is hidden. It isn't. We're never going to touch it again. So every time we then grow in therapy, we are getting closer to touching the imprint because eventually we're going to dismantle it, or at least pull it apart as much as we can. But we've got you could think about like a little guard called an internal saboteur that says, no, no, no, no, don't touch it.

Don't ever come back here. This is there's so many reasons to not touch this. What are you doing? Trying to grow and develop. So this is the set up unconsciously. So my patient is in a place where she knows about her imprint. She's looked at it, she's done all kinds of things. And as she is making progress and really getting to her strongest, most true self, we're just going to see that there's always an internal saboteur waiting to sort of pull the person back. So I'll go through these dreams. And then the last dream I really want to go over, because it not only speaks to this patient, but this is a dream that I think speaks to what we were talking about for love, for everyone.

Okay, so in this is the first dream and the patient says, I see a lot of bright colors all next to each other, but it's somehow creepy. Oh, one of them I think, is magenta. That's the dream. So for anybody who thinks you have to have, you know, a 40 page essay is a dream, you do not. This is a very important, very short dream. But you're right. Most of us would say, I'm not even going to bother to remember that at. Why remember it? It's a nothing. But you have to talk to the person who had the dream. I would ask, okay, well, tell me what comes to mind now.

Color is very important to this person. This is a design artistic person. So it makes sense that colors are big. And I think we can also all think when we think of colors very easily make the move to feeling. So these are all these bright colors. Now if you're listening to that you go to eight bright colors. Okay, I've got that creepy, normally creepy and bright colors don't go together, so why are they together? For me, I don't think of magenta is a creepy color. It's pretty brighten. Cheery. I'm listening and I have to figure out why is she giving me creepy with bright colors now?

Eventually. My patient has done this for a long time, so she's going to probably get there. Or I'm going to say, well, okay, help me understand, how are these bright colors creepy. And then I want to hear what her mind says. So we go through all of this and what basically emerged was this. Her feelings are all coming back. These are the bright colors and these are her feelings. So after all this work that she's done, her own feelings, not her mother's, not other people in the family, not who she's supposed to be and how she's supposed to feel.

Her true feelings are emerging and they're beautiful. They're bright colors, even magenta. Beautiful, gentle also gives us another, you know, idea of health and vibrancy. But she's to feel they're creepy. Meaning she is was so programed to not be in touch with her own feelings that their emergence, their return has to be felt in a negative way, something creepy it might get you not good. So we don't usually think of creepy and something good. So it's all gotten turned around. Well, okay, there's your intellect at work, right? It's going to take this warning from the internal saboteur that we don't ever touch the imprint.

So don't ever get your true feelings back, or you'll know what's gone on and says, oh, no. Well, your feelings are coming. Well, now, what do I do? All right, we'll make this really scary and creepy. Maybe you'll go away. Don't touch. That. Maybe you won't touch it. Through your conversations. Did this resonate? Yes. She could understand that this wasn't the first time that the internal saboteur had shown its head and taken something that was progress, and tried to dismantle it. This is, you know, if you really want to talk about resistance, this is the ultimate resistance is not wanting the imprint to be seen.

So if you want to understand resistance in other parts of a treatment, most of the time we're coming back to that where not to know it exists. You're not to look at it. It's interesting because I recall being at this stage in some of my dreams and many times confusing the process. So the internal saboteur would hold the key and lock me back in my cage so many times, and it took a long time for me to see that. For that, I was thinking that I was doing my best to hold on to what was my reality, and that I needed to just make sure that it was safe and, you know, sort of locked up and that that was a good thing.

Yes. When the internal saboteur and our intellect is brilliant at rationalizing something, see, it would say, no, no, it's it's great that I locked the door. That is safety, that security. Look what I've built. Yeah, I've got you. Well, and you have to be careful in the therapy because for the therapists, you say. But look what I built, right? I built this safe space that I now have my own safe space. Yeah. What are you doing? Right. Valid argument. I'd have to weigh it and see. But I have to look at everything around it and see. Does that really make sense?

Or is this personnel locked back in a cage? And I'm to be locked out, right? So, you pesky therapist that is trying to help me get connected with my true self and re-experience my imprint and kill us all, should just stay on the other side of that lock and then we're fine. So yes, there are all kinds of ways and you have to be weighing this. So when people are looking at their dreams, if you see something, you may just want to think, is there another way to look at this. You know if it's something like I am locking myself in to something, it might be safety but it might not be you know.

And again with this there are no hard and fast rules I can't say. Yeah. Every time you see that it's going to be this, you have to investigate it. This is the mystery. What we see is she is fighting really hard. She has had a victory. She got her bright colors. They are there for her. She now has them now just because the internal saboteur wants to make it creepy doesn't mean we're going to lose all progress. Just means we're going to have to do some fighting. As you talk this through and as your patient sees, realizes, feels that she has these feelings, the more you talk it through and the more she dreams, the less power that that internal saboteur has over that aspect of herself.

Hopefully, though, the internal saboteur might rev up and get stronger for a period of time because you are making too much progress. So session, day session. We may see it amping up over the big picture. Yes, we're probably going to see that. You may see it in the dream, but feel it less in your outside life. That's the other piece. So sometimes I see an internal saboteur incredibly active in the dreams, which is really where we want it. We don't want it out there messing up your life too much if possible. So having you suddenly get into fights with people that you actually don't want to fight with or, you know, sabotage yourself somehow and forget to study for an exam and oh, now I've got an F in that class.

Those sorts of things that just happen. It's usually the work of the internal saboteur or some combination with your imprint here. What we want to see, that's a fine place for this to be is in the dream with creepy, creepy we can talk about we can work on. She can get that idea that this is happening that's very easy to see. So that gives her strength. Even if the internal saboteur sort of revs up for a while, it's understandable. It's really cool that this small dream can do so. Much, bring so much. Exactly. Let's move. So we get the idea of this one.

We clearly see, though, that she's having victory, right? We don't even need the internal saboteur unless there's been some progress. Doesn't need to show up if there's no threat. So the threat is all of these feelings have come back. Then we move on to the next dream. So the second dream, the woman is in front of a big house. She puts two fingers into the shape of a vagina, and she is arrested again. Another pretty compact dream. And you have to talk to the patient and understand this. But as she described it, the woman in the dream uses her fingers to make something that the patient felt was the shape of a vagina.

Okay, why? What is this? Well, in her mind, this signified the feminine, and it was a big symbol for it. So this woman, the patient is the woman in the dream is really saying, I am now taking back my feminine. I am now in possession of my feminine. And I will show you the symbol of it. I'm going to show everybody that I have it. And of course, what happens? She's arrested. So the internal saboteur comes in the form of the police. Can't do that, lady. We'll have none of that. You may not show any sign that you have your feminine side. Very present with you.

We don't allow it. Okay? Now, you're not going to know that in the outside world. No, I don't know that you're even going to get that if you consciously have a conversation about it. Maybe there'd be a hint, but the dream takes you right there and it says, oh my gosh. Even though she was supposed to think feelings were creepy, look at this. She keeps going and now she's saying, oh yeah, I own this, I possess and I will show you the sign that I am in touch with my feminine side. Now, this isn't just being a woman. She uses the sign of the vagina.

I don't want people to get lost on gender and sex. You know, description there that this is really her symbol for the feminine. Which is really the feeling part of the. Feeling part of her. That's right. And she's got it now. The internal saboteur doesn't like it, wants it arrested. You know, I think in a lot of ways we do that in the outside world, too. We don't want to talk about feelings. Don't get into them. They're too much. Keep those to yourself. Stay quiet. All the ways in which we are made to be quiet. And so it's arrested now, of course, as the therapist, you're thinking, all right, so it does this arrest slow down the progress.

What happens here? We have to see. But at least she can also take with her the victory. Because once you have it, nobody can take it away from you. Right? So it may go underground. The internal saboteur may do all kinds of things, but you've gotten it. So now we know you can make contact. You can really own this. So if you somehow end up putting this aside, let's say this new found connection to your real feelings, you can come back to it. Yes. You have to decide to somewhere in you. But it's there you see there. And you you've seen it. You've seen it.

You got it. Okay. Now if the internal saboteurs too strong you may lose contact for a while. As you said you may get diverted. Something else may seem important. All kinds of ways in which we are asked to give up the connection. But once you've earned it, yeah, you'll get it back. It's there. I have a question about this dream two. Could it also be that this is one of those dreams, sort of for humankind? And and I know that it was in, in her case, the feminine about her feelings, but it's almost as if every woman, every person has been imprinted with the idea that a woman can't be fully equal to a man, and every time she tries, there's someone to put a foot on her.

I think that's true, and I think it's also true. So it's true for women and it's true for the feminine. In men and women, that the feminine is also stomped on and women are too. Yes. And what is very hopeful about this dream is if you can get one person to reconnect to the feminine, she gets stronger. So the person gets stronger, but the feminine gets stronger. The feminine side now has attention to it. The feminine now is invited in. The feminine is the boot is off the neck. Okay, so it starts growing in one because we're all connected in the unconscious.

Everybody feels it. This is a great dream to see. This is hopeful because once it going, we don't know. Let's see where it goes. And very helpful for the patient of course. And now the patient is potentially operating in a slightly different way in her outside world. That's right. She's good. Connect to the people in her life in a different way. And then those connections create a difference in the people she's connecting with. That's right. There's more love and more space for love to enter. Yeah, this is how we end war. So then we move to the third dream.

I dreamt that Jane, my daughter needs to give a speech, but she can't remember the speech or the speechwriters name, and she can't remember how to reach that person. I know that my friend Tommy knows who the speechwriter is. And I see Tommy on the street while we're outside and he smiles at me. I'm wearing a long dress and it's pale green. I can tell he still likes me, and I go over and talk to him and ask about Jane's speechwriter. The dream. It might seem a little unclear at first, so you have to ask the patient, what are we talking about? What speech?

What is Jane talking about? Why doesn't Jane know who her own speechwriter is, or what the content of the speech is, or where the person is? So you'd go through it and you let the person tell you, well, this makes me, you know, what do you think about Jane? Why a speech? What is all of this? What became clear is that this is her saying, what I am getting ready to talk about or give a speech about is my own emotional life. I now am going to give the speech about it. Now, the internal saboteur does a little dirty work in there and says, oh well, what speech?

You forgot. We don't even know who who gave a speech, who, but the person the patient connect says, oh wait, but I've got a friend who knows the person. I will get back to it. So you're asked what happens when the internal saboteur interferes. Well, here we are. The patient just doesn't go around, says, okay, well, if I can't get it there, I'll get it here so the connection can come back together. And the green dress is about health here. The the green. You have to talk about colors and what they mean to the person. But here what emerged is this is like a new spring, a reemergence, something fresh and new and healthy green.

So this she's clothed herself in green. Great. That's telling us it's going in the right direction. And she will get the speech back. She's going to be able to say all the things she needs to say about her own life. And that's what we want. Want everybody to know the full story about your own emotional life. Here's what happened to me. Here's what I had to work on. Here's what I did, and here's where I am now. Know your. Story. So she's discovered enough about the goodness of feeling her own feelings to not let this internal saboteur take over.

That's right. Okay, I see your work. And over here, I've got another idea. I'll get around. Great. Get around it. Figure it out. Don't let it stop you. And that's what she's doing. She's building strength. That's green. Wow. These are so amazingly sequential. You can just see the step, how this flows. So then we'd go to dream four. I'm getting something out of the refrigerator, and somehow Jane ends up inside the refrigerator and we both laugh about it. Then I'm in a house and I see that one of the drapes isn't connected properly. I worry that someone can see in.

I can't reach it to fix it the right way, but I make sure it's securely closed. So you hear a dream like this, and I think it goes back to your cage description. What's happening suddenly? I've got. Now we can see that she uses her daughter as a symbol for herself a lot. So when I hear that somebody ends up in the refrigerator on ice, what are we putting on ice and the intellect, the internal saboteur and the intellect work together to make this funny. But I'm seeing all this growth, and now all of a sudden, we're on ice. That's not funny. That there's a closed door.

Behind a closed door. None of this sounds good, right? So I know the internal saboteur is. You said, well, what happens? Well, we were allowed a certain amount of progress, and then the internal saboteur really said, ha ha. No. What she is also worried about is that now that she is emerging, she's going to give her speech. She showed the sign of the vagina, she and her her feminine and her freedom. She is able to have all of her feelings back. She's going to be noticed. Now we've got a problem, because this is a person who also wasn't supposed to be noticed.

Okay, I'm brightly colored and healthy and can talk now we've got a problem because I will be seen. So what I quickly do is shut all the drapes and close the door in the refrigerator and don't have to be afraid. What she's really afraid of is she will be murdered. And I use that strong a word because originally, when the imprint was given, people in the family weren't loving enough, didn't work hard to ameliorate whatever pain that might have brought, even if they didn't know it was there. Just love trying to be as loving as possible. Her family wasn't.

They really weren't very loving, and so that didn't get balanced in what she felt was really, oh, they were quite okay with all of my feelings being killed off. They weren't looking to understand me. They weren't interested in what I really thought or felt. They were quite happy to have me be quiet and not bother them. Please go off as early as you can and get married and be out of our hair. So much easier. So much easier that feels to a person like a murder. You were happy to kill me off. You didn't want anything to do with my true self, right?

I have no feelings that you want. To see, that you want to see. So that's why she's hiding. Because really, what she's afraid of is not that the whole world will see her, it's that her parents will see her. And they will say, I thought we already did this job and. Quiet. Shut you up. Yeah, we had an agreement here. Right now, she will project her parents into everybody else in the world. So the whole world will become scary. You better close all the drapes. But really, it's not about the world. It's about how it felt to live in her house with people who didn't want to know about her feelings, therefore not know who she was.

So the internal saboteur came back and said, you should be really afraid. Now you're going to be seen and your parents are going to hunt you down and get you. That's not going to work for you, right? But she's had a lot of treatment, luckily, so this isn't going to stop her. Let's go to the last dream I dream. I'm with these two men. One is the father, the other is the son. I think the father is a rabbi. The son is very interested in being with me at the beginning. I'm not sure if I am free to be with him, as I might be with another man. I seem to feel so accepted and welcomed by this man.

It makes me feel good. As the dream goes on, I seem to be changing slowly and feel like maybe I can be with him. I seem to be taller in the dream and my hair has more reddish highlights. So I love this dream. We do get something that people may say is religious because she references a rabbi. We also have the father and the son, which I think, makes a reference to Christianity. But really the dream is much more about spirituality and about love. And what she's saying is, in this dream I have worked so hard. What I am finally able to do is be loved.

It took me my whole life to find myself and now I am able to receive love. So we see the feminine. We see that she can take something in. She grows taller or right. She's saying I developed, but I think she's also saying I go towards spirit, I get taller so she is not only able to receive love from a person here, which we all want to do, love each other. But it's really saying that takes me into union with myself and spirit. New highlights in my hair. So it's a beautiful dream. And again, this is a lovely, lovely dream for this woman. She has now gotten herself done all this work.

She is ready to be the receiver of love of all the love spirit can provide. But if she can do it, then we all can do it. And the more she does it, the more love comes in and at least is coming into the collective. But if we all could go towards this, then there are no wars. There are no starving children, there are no people without homes. There's nobody feeling lonely without a friend. We all can have it. And the dream says it's there. And so that again, as you said, is a dream for the collective. Yes, this is a dream for all of us. What a gift.

Beautiful, beautiful dream. This patient is still working with you. She's still working. And this is pretty nice. If you're in a treatment, then you get to the point where you say, I now can have love. I'd be pretty happy with that. Oh my gosh. I'd be pretty. Especially when you've started in a place where you felt emotionally, there's no love here for me. Doesn't mean people didn't say, oh, we love you. Of course we love you. You're our daughter. But nobody really treated her in any way to give her the feeling she was loved. To work, to fight so hard, to think you have to hide because they're going to come kill you.

To think your feelings are creepy. To give the vagina sign in the victory sign and be arrested. You know you see what you're fighting through in the trenches of the mind. This is all only inside. She's leading a perfectly acceptable life. There's no signs that any of this is going on inside, but here it all is in there. And she finally gets to this point. I grow taller. I can be love. It's a beautiful thing. So she can now love herself. Which only helps the rest of us. That's right. So I think we have to get here. So again we don't we do not have political problems.

We have love problems. And until we all go inside and work on the love problem, understand why we do not have enough love in this world, enough love in our own lives. Until we are working on that, forget everything else. You're wasting your time. You're just wasting your time and energy and everybody's going to get hurt. People will get killed. Mothers will lose their children. Fathers lose their children. Siblings lose each other in these wars, in violence and crime and drug addiction and starvation. All of these things and nothing we are doing externally is really going to fix it all.

I don't want to take anything away from those people working diligently and hard all the time, but in the main, for the whole world, if we really want it to change, go inside now. Don't stop being loving outside. Everybody who's doing that, keep doing it. We need more and more and more. And also everybody has to go inside. This is not an external problem. Well, and I hope to that as you say, we appreciate those people who are doing something to help on the outside. Yeah. If we can see those moments where there's help being given and help being received and you establish a curiosity about that, you might start to think about yourself and, wow, where do I go to finally find a way to help my community?

And I can't honestly help my community to the best of my ability until I discover who I am, what love really is. And what's in my unconscious, what's in my unconscious, what am I carrying around? Because it will find its way out one way or the other. I'd like to get it out through a dream or talking, but if we don't. It will still show itself. So we want to know that's there and know that. That's why we also have to go inside. Because if that's where the conversation with our unconscious world is, doesn't mean external conversations aren't any use, but it just means that we have to know about the full inner universe of how we are put together and how we make these seemingly conscious decisions.

And no, they're just not conscious. They're all they all have to do with feelings. They all have to do with how we were treated in our life. And they all live in the repository called our unconscious. And we have to go in there to contend with it. And I think that there truly is a greater interest in the idea of the unconscious, a curiosity, again amongst humanity, that there are more people who have questions, who who are living from sense of some sense of desperation, because, as we said earlier, the chaos in the world that is is a pretty hard thing to support.

Where do you go? What do you do? And so this is just wonderful that you're giving us this message. And as hard as it is to hear that, it's difficult to get through some of these dreams and you're faced with this and that. There is so much hope in there. Yes. And I hope this gives everybody hope that, yes, it's it. There is a fight, but at least there's a fight with a potential good ending and not just a fight that is ongoing and leads to nothing except violence and death. Right? We're already fighting. We're already fighting. Put the energy in the right spot.

Well, thank you very much. I hate you so much. So fabulous. It's. You're the greatest gift. So thank you for letting me share this. And thank you to my patient for dreaming and being willing to share this. Yes, many thanks to her. Thank you. We'll see you next time. Yes, please follow, rate and share our podcast and pass this episode along to someone who might need it. This is and now love. Listen to your dreams. Live from your heart. Remember and now love. And.