Pets in Recovery: Ken Moses on Fostering Pets for Folks in Rehab

Transcript auto-generated from the episode audio; formatting has been cleaned up, but wording is verbatim.

We can help you start drinking, but you got to find somebody that can teach you how to carry that story without living in it. And nobody should ever have to choose between saving their own life and abandoning their pet. There's no hierarchy and suffering. Pain is personal to everybody. I really hope that you fall apart. So we have another. I'm Cynthia Marks and I head up the Holistic Psychoanalysis Foundation, established by my late husband, Doctor Bernard Bail. Welcome to And Now Love. We often speak about how human healing can only begin when we remove the barriers that keep us from being authentically who we are.

When we allow ourselves to step out of our isolation and into a space where we are completely supported, to truly move forward, we have to look at the hidden scripts and attachments that actually hold us back, and we have to find the grace that lets us choose life. But sometimes the barriers keeping a person from saving their own life aren't just internal. Sometimes they are sitting right at our feet, looking up at us with total devotion. For so many people struggling with addiction. The thought of entering a treatment center is terrifying. Not just because of the work ahead, but because they have a beloved dog or a cat, and absolutely nowhere for them to go.

They face an impossible choice. Get help and abandon their best friend, or stay in the dark to keep them safe. My guest today decided that nobody should ever have to make that choice. I am so incredibly happy to welcome Ken Moses, the founder of a wonderful organization called Pets in Recovery. Ken, who is in long term recovery himself, started this volunteer driven free fostering network after a devastating personal loss. He realized that by stepping in to safely shelter, feed and love these animals while their owners are in rehab, he wasn't just saving pets, but he was unlocking the cage that kept their owners from getting clean.

Ken's work is the ultimate expression of grace. It tells these pet owners, we have your back, you matter and your companion will be waiting for you on the other side of your healing. Ken, thank you so much for being here. Hi, Cynthia. Thank you for having me. I'm just so honored to be here today. Well, it's a pleasure. And we're talking about something in the world of self-care, in the world of helping one another that we haven't really explored before. So the idea of taking care of our pets, who in a large way are taking care of us, is super cool.

I'm so excited to talk about it. Awesome. I'm glad to be here, so I'm looking forward to the conversation. You've said you're open to talking about your own experience, and I think it's important because it led you to do the work you're doing. So why don't you share with us a little bit about the path you found yourself on? Well, I've been sober since 2019. That's right before Covid hit, and so I. It wasn't my first time to the rodeo. I came to Palm Springs in 2002 and to basically get sober. I had struggled with alcohol addiction all my life.

And this is where you're still based is in the Palm Springs area? Yes, I'm in Palm Springs. And so around 2019. Something happened. I mean, I had been to meetings over the last two decades before that. Gosh. So you were a kid when you started to rely on alcohol or drugs or. Exactly. Yeah. Something happened in 2019. I came into the rooms and I felt like my behavior was deteriorating faster than I could lower my standards. Wow. That is bad. It just felt like my behavior had finally become unacceptable to myself. And so I did, for the first time, what they say to do when you come into the rooms of AA.

And I raised my hand and I said, I need help. I don't know how to live. I need a sponsor, I need fellowship, I need phone numbers. I just need to know how to live life. And that day I received everything and more that I asked for. I got a sponsor and we began to work what we call the 12 steps of AA. And one of the biggest steps is a inventory steps, the fourth step. And it asks for those of us who are working the steps to take a look at our lives and write it down. You know, I have never revealed my past life to anybody. This is something that I kept secret up until that that moment.

The step is an inventory of our basic behaviors that have harmed others ourselves. And how are we involved in all of that? And so it's really a self-discovery step. And in that process, are you sharing that in a group or are you writing it down and it's more personal? Thank you for that. The first the first step is to write it all down. And the fifth step is sharing it with another alcoholic. So when I sat down with my sponsor and did my fourth step with him. It took about two hours. It's the first time that I revealed my past life to anybody, and there was this long, uncomfortable silence in the air, and then he just kind of looked at me and he goes, my, oh my, you got yourself a story.

We can help you stop drinking, but you got to find somebody that can teach you how to carry that story without living in it. And I didn't know what he meant at the time, but what I began to do is to explore the causes and conditions of my drinking. And it really was rooted in past trauma. I had a story early on where my mother, she crossed unspeakable boundaries with me as a child for about three years. This when it was going on, I didn't know it was. It was something bad to me. As a child, I was receiving special love from this parent, and it came at a time where I had been abandoned by my father.

So it almost felt like as a child, privileged in a way. And so it wasn't until that I was playing with my friend down the street, and it just came out. Because you had no reason for it. Not know. I thought all mommies did this. And and so I just blurted it out and he just looked at me and he goes, what are you talking about? Mommy's don't do that. And I remember how I felt in that moment. I turned purple in embarrassment. And I realized in that moment that what was happening was not love at all. And I pushed that story down. For the next 35 years, I felt as if the rug was pulled from underneath me.

I from that moment felt responsible, that I was bad, I was dirty, I was ashamed of who I was. And so I swore I would never tell another soul. You know about that? About how old were you when you discovered this? So this was nine to about the age of 11. Trauma is a tricky thing for me. Trauma is like the smell of burnt toast in the air. It lingers, and it has a tendency to leave a trace of itself behind. I didn't realize it, but for many years after that, that experience kept bubbling up in my present life with rage not being able to trust anybody.

My relationships were tarnished with this experience that I had. I just could not see anything in life without this filter of this trauma. Don't trust this is not real. They're out to hurt you and harm you. That's how I went through life for decades. And the way that I dealt with it was alcohol. I was a classical musician for 25 years. I played the bassoon for a living. And I love that. One of the biggest criticisms that I always got from my teachers and from critics was intensity far too intense. And that was a criticism. Yeah, which is great if you're playing, you know, Stravinsky or something, you know, modern.

But when you're trying to play Bach and, and Brahms and Ravel, the intensity tends to be a problem. But I played everything with intensity. That intensity I know now, today was all that bottled up rage. Playing music was my only way of expressing, saying, this happened to me, this is what happened. And did that give you some momentary relief? It did, because it was the only way of me communicating that that happened to me. For years. I had heard that this happens to girls, but does it happen to boys? I mean, that was a complete mystery to me. I really felt like I was the only person in the entire earth that this had happened to.

It wasn't until that moment that my alcoholism brought me to my knees, and it was the end of my music career. I had a nervous breakdown. I ended up leaving my music career that I realized I had to do something about it. And so I came to Palm Springs, started going to AA meetings, and struggled for a long time until that moment in 2019 when I got my sponsor. So you were invested in the idea of becoming healthy, but like so many, you went back and forth into alcohol and out of it, and but you stayed with the AA program. I kept coming back. That's what they kept saying.

Just keep coming back. And every time I would come back all bruised up and, you know, jarred with relapsing. I was so ashamed to come back to the Bruins, but I just kept coming back. And they were. They were absolutely welcoming. They said, you have a place here. This is where you along? Beautiful thing. Yeah. It's a wonderful community in Palm Springs of people that are in recovery. It's pretty sensational. So when it happened in 2019. I decided, okay, I'm ready, let's do the work. And but my sponsor saying that I got to find some way of carrying the story without living in it, what he was really saying to me and what was revealing through that, that inventory step that I did was I was carrying that story, and my part in it was because it gave me an excuse to drink.

You drink too, if you had a story like mine. I held on to that until I came into a room full of people just like me. I mean, a big dose of humility and saying, yeah, me too. And that was really hard to to let go of that story. I can see that going two different ways. You come into this environment where you have a story and you've been saying, yeah, of course I'm drinking. I look at my story and then people around you are saying, we hear you, but we have stories too. So you feel like, oh gosh, I've made a big deal out of something. And it's an excuse.

But on the other hand, don't you feel completely held? Yes, I did. From the moment, the first time that I shared my story in a room full of alcoholics, I felt safe. And so I began my work with trauma specialists, meadow counselor that specialized in trauma healing. And she gave me a book. The book is called The Choice. It's by Doctor Edith Eva Edgar. She's a childhood survivor of Auschwitz. She was saved because she could dance. And the ruler of the Auschwitz camp, I think his name was Josef Mengele. He said, what can you do, little girl? And she said, I can dance.

And so she danced for him, and it saved her life. And so they kept her alive. And he would show up every week to watch his little ballerina dance. And that's how she survived that camp. The flashback 90 years later, she decides to write a memoir and become a psychologist and help people in trauma. And there's two stories that I took away from that book. The first one is she's helping this lady in Dallas, and this lady is just in tears, and she's so traumatized because she had ordered a Cadillac and it showed up in the wrong color. And she was just heartbroken about this, you know?

And, you know, the doctor listens to her. And the first thing she says, she's like, well, this is no Auschwitz. And she looked at her client. She said, there no hierarchy and suffering. Pain is personal to everybody. And that spoke volumes to me that I would never, ever compare that my trauma from anybody else is being more intense, more hard to deal with than any others, or less than pain is personal message of the book is how we overcome it. The book taught me that there is a way to let go of the pain without letting go of the truth. A lot of us, you know, we don't talk about that kind of abuse because we don't believe anybody would, you know, believe us through.

And we're also fearful of judgment. So many of us, if I share with someone this truth, they're going to see me the way I see myself, which is dirty and confused and all those things that go along with that. Exactly. The second story from that book is she runs into another childhood survivor of the camp late in life, and she had one question for her. She said, have you forgiven the guards yet? She goes, no, I will never forgive them for what they did to my family and me. And she said, then, my dear, you're still in the camps. The book taught me a valuable lesson early in my sobriety, that we are prisoners of our own trauma, because we choose to hold on to the pain.

That's a tall order for any, you know, any person, especially somebody that's just trying to not pick up a drink, you know, for a day to how do you do that? I mean, how do you let go of the pain without the truth? Did you have a roadmap? And did you. Did. You figure out a way to forgive those that had harmed you? I did. The second book that I came across that changed things for me is by a doctor, Bruce Perry, and it's called What Happened to You. That title alone caught my eye because just the word happened instead of wrong. Yes. What's wrong with you?

Right. Spoke to me immediately. I said, okay, well, this is a book for me. A good, safe start. So, Doctor Bruce Perry says in order to understand the oak, its back to the acorn. We must go. And so I started working with trauma healers, counselors that specialize with men that have been sexually abused. The most effective treatment that I have had is the people that incorporate eMDR. Can you explain what the premise is there for our audience? Yeah. So eMDR is is is an eye movement technique where you use a rapid eye movement back and forth for a while to kind of gain another level of perspective.

It is a way to kind of talk to the subconscious mind to get under all those layers. So in a session of eMDR, we would just start by. He would ask me, how was your day to day, what happened at work? And, you know, I would offer some kind of challenge that I had at work, and we would do the rapid eye movement, and soon enough, I don't know why, but hot, fresh tears just start rolling down my face and I'm immediately taken back to a room with my younger self. Seeing myself at that age, vulnerable, scared. There's a child just so completely consumed with confusion.

And I'm looking at that child and he says, what do you see? I see me and I'm scared. Now I ask that child to come to you, say it's safe now. I'm here to protect you. And I don't know how many months that we went through sessions where that child wouldn't come to me. It's too painful. We'd say it's too painful. Finally, one day, I gained the strength of writing down like I did my fourth step. Inventory. A friggin this letter to my mother. She was still alive, and I didn't share it with her until she died. And when I wrote that forgiveness letter the next session I had when I asked that child to come to me, and he did, I mean, he just ran into my arms and I hugged that child, and I loved him, and I smelled his hair and it smelled like strawberry Kool-Aid, which was my favorite drink as a child.

It was so real. Cynthia. This moment of just connecting to a part of me that had just been pushed down so far, and it's just been yearning to get rid of this pain. And I felt like I had just overcome everything that was done to me. I felt finally, that I didn't feel like these things were done to me, that they were done for me. I felt like, okay, I can get a grasp on how to move forward now. And that step, that forgiveness changed everything. There's a definition that Doctor Perry gave in the book that worked for me, because I couldn't find a definition of forgiveness that I could I could grasp, that I could embrace and truly believe in.

And his definition is forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past could have been any different. Boy, that's that's hard, boy. But I mean, giving up the hope. Yeah. That the past could have been any different. And I think that that sort of has a lot to do with how we even carry the trauma that we carry, because we hope that it isn't what we know and feel it is. It's something else. We hope it's something else. And I mean, I know for me personally, this isn't about me, but I'll take a moment supporting that trauma and turning it into something that it wasn't was the way I survived.

And but that thing that I did where I pretended it was true love, messed up everything else I was doing because my idea of what love was, was so far afield from what love is. Thank you for sharing that. That's powerful. It reminds me of what you're of what you're describing. When I finally figured out what was happening in my present life. I mean, I thought, you know, I'm just this angry Rachel person that is just hopeless. When I figured out what was happening, I could finally see that I didn't hear with my ears. I hear with my triggers. Every moment of calm is turned into chaos.

Silence is considered abandonment. And anybody that's honest with me is an attack. You're having a conversation with me, and I'm fighting battles from long ago. And when I realized that was happening, I mean, that's when things got really uncomfortable in the mirror. Trauma healing was not just an option for me. It was a necessity of life. I knew I couldn't stay sober unless I found a way to carry the truth without the pain. And so these sessions of going back and honoring the pain that that child never had the opportunity to feel. I mean, this is really a hard grown up subject.

And even for me being, you know, in my 50s and trying to get sober and trying to overcome this was so hard to grasp. These sessions were so exhausting, but so rewarding. I would just lay back in my office chair after a session and just. I feel like I can breathe. What a gift. Just. Just like there were these strands over my chest and just one more gone, another one gone. And they continue today because that scared child shows up in real life all the time. And I have to be present enough going through present life knowing this is, you know, this is going to happen, you know.

And when it does, I, I see that child as it is. And if I'm present enough, I can talk to him and I can say, I see you, I got you. Just lay your head down on my heart and go to sleep. I always have a place for that scared child. I found forgiveness and compassion for my mother. When I stopped comparing her to the one I thought I should have had, the one I deserved. The stead of the shadows and the kids. It's what happened. And how do we move forward with this? And anybody that has been broken and bruised up with trauma has the awesome opportunity to turn those painful situations into wisdom.

I mean, just sitting here talking to you is a monumental part of my healing. I'm taken back to that first time I talked to my sponsor and shared this story with him. Now I'm talking to people I don't even know. Yeah. Well, it's a treasure for us that you're sharing this. It's it's really deeply moving for us. And I know it is for you. Your journey is not uncommon. And we all think that we're very much alone in our trauma and our pain, and it's very hard to share. And for you to be so brave is is really great for the rest of us. When you realized that this was something that you wanted to attend to, that you wanted to look at, that this trauma you were carrying was really managing your life for you, and not such a good way.

Did you ever say, well, but this is what I know. This is who I am. This is where I go with my thoughts. If I don't have this thing that has become me, what feels that space? I think a lot of people think if I give this up, even though it's unhealthy, if I give this up, what goes there? That that's a great question and I wouldn't know how to answer it until just a moment. Right now, service. The service work that I do with pets and recovery has filled that space at the same time. I mean, that that mission of temporary pet care for people that go to treatment evolved early in my, my sobriety.

And it did fill that space because first it was I'm a bassoonist. I'm a musician. When that ended, I was just so lost. Who am I? You're an artist at heart, and that's that's who you are. That's your identity. I understand that that and that. I think that you did that and that you see that that was the way that you were able to really express yourself through. Music is fabulous. And now there are so many agencies who are in support of that. As people work through their trauma, we realize and respect the idea of creativity and art as more than just what you see on the surface.

It is a completely wonderful way for us to express ourselves when we don't have the words. And if we can do that in a setting where we're held and seen and and supported, it's such a valuable tool. That's what you're doing. And so I'm so grateful for people like yourself giving us a voice to others and, you know, maybe just on the brink, deciding to take that journey into a painful place they never wanted to return to. Right, right. And we all have some amount of trauma, whether we can contend with it, choose to contend with it, take a step or we don't.

It's it's there. It's there. Just like the lady with the Cadillac. Yes. You know, her pain is different than mine, but there is no hierarchy in our suffering. It's the same. And that that was so important to her, you know, speaks to whatever trauma she's, you know, carrying so hats and recovery, which is this fabulous thing that you're doing. First tell us how that works. And then I want to ask you how you started it. So Pets and Recovery is a volunteer temporary pet fostering service for people who go to treatment centers for alcohol and drug addiction.

We foster pets while people get the recovery help that they need. So we are a community of people that I've put together and mainly in the Coachella Valley area, but we have people in LA and in other areas in Southern California that opened their hearts and homes to these amazing animals so their owners can go and get themselves sober and healthy again. That is a big stumbling block for lots of people, right? Yeah, this idea of temporary pet care, you mentioned the word grace. It's a simple word to describe what we do. One of my favorite authors is an Lamont, and she describes Grace as quote, Grace meets you where you are, load you up in its wheelbarrow and dumps you in a better place.

That's so perfect. It's basically what we do when I get a call from somebody that is in need of treatment, they're often terrified. They want help, but there's one thing standing in their way. I do it with my dog. For a lot of people, as you mentioned in addiction and people living on Skid Row, their dog is their whole world. There's emotional support and most of the time the only living thing that's never given up on them. And it is one of the biggest reasons why people won't go to treatment because they can't find a home for their dog. That's kind of how things started for pets and recovery.

I was in my sobriety in 2019. I made friends with a guy starting his own recovery journey about the same time as me, and he lived in Phoenix, and we'll call him David. And David and I spoke every morning, usually really early in the morning when alcoholics are up, you know, in early sobriety. And, you know, we talked every day those conversations. Having somebody going through the same journey at the same time was so important to me. And then one day, David disappeared, and I had feared the worst. When he finally surfaced, he called me and said, I need help, I need to go to treatment.

I just I do need to go to treatment. I don't know what to do with my dogs. He had two beloved German Shepherds and he's like, I don't don't have any family. My friends won't talk to me anymore. Nobody will take my dogs. And I said, well, don't worry, let's let's look into it. And I started to research options in Maricopa County in Southern California for temporary foster care that didn't end up in permanent adoption. I couldn't find anything to my SA. There were rescue services, but they all, you know, evolved into permanent adoption in the end.

And then David disappeared again. And the next call I got was from the Maricopa Sheriff's Department. An officer had found my friend in a hotel room with a needle in his arm, dead. And to his side was his phone. My frantic text. Where are you? Just tell me you're alive. Oh. He said, we found his phone. We saw that you were the last one to reach out to him. Sorry, he's passed away. I'm so sorry. You. And the worst news came two days later, when I found out that his shepherds had been taken to a kill shelter. I mean, that loss. And early on, it was my first time experiencing grief as a sober man.

And I did. What they said to do is like, get yourself to a lot of meetings, like stay in the middle of the herd. I didn't drink, I wanted to, I wanted to drink really badly, but I didn't. But I stayed in that grief long enough to realize something, and nobody should ever have to choose between saving their own life and abandoning their pet. So I started making announcements in recovery meetings that I would foster anybody, any, you know, anybody that needs to go to treatment and needs help with fostering their dog, call me. And so I started fostering dogs myself.

So years did you begin getting calls pretty quickly? Immediately. The first were two little shows that the guy needed to go to treatment, and we had him for 60 days. And that guy is managing a hotel right now in Riverside doing great. Yeah, real success story. It's so proud of him. People just started, you know, signing up to, you know, to join my mission. And so I ended up giving them to two gentlemen in the Palm Springs area to care for in the last, I don't know, 45 days that they had them. And they just loved these two little animals. I mean, the the experience that we have with these animals is just life changing, you know?

You know, you're doing something, you know, for the good of, for the better of changing somebody's life. But the bond that you have with these animals who are deeply affected by addiction. We talk a lot about how our disease affects the loved ones and our friends. What about our pets? So how do you see that. When we get these animals, these amazing animals in our care, they're often traumatized. They've been left. They haven't been fed for, you know, days. So a lot of them have abandonment issues. And so we have to be very careful with these animals and allowing them, like alcoholics, a few days to get their bearings and allowing these animals to feel safe again, not, you know, they will run to the door, they'll sit by the window waiting for, you know, their person to come back, and you just allow them to like like those of us, you know, the pain is part of the journey.

And for these animals, it's the same thing. They don't know what's happening. They just know they're in an odd place. But soon they realize, oh, it's safe here. I'm getting fed. This guy is kind of cool. He's loving. And so their guard goes down. The best part comes when we reunite that pet with their owner after treatment. Oh, I bet. That moment that reunion can barely put into words to describe what the animal. Their reaction. There's joy. There's trust again, there's relief. And the expression on the dog's face is just priceless. As if to say, you know, I knew you'd be back, you know?

And I know things are going to be better. And look how healthy. You love you. Look, look at you. You're looking pretty good, dude. That moment touches my heart every time. They're one of my proudest moments in knowing that. That we reunited these. These two that loved each other, even through the thick and thin of addiction, of reuniting them in a better place. I mean, look at what a pet will put up with really through, you know, an addiction process, let's say, you know, of being left with no food and so forth, but still standing by the side of the person who is there to take care of them.

Yeah, and don't get me wrong, I'm probably giving the worst scenarios. It's not always the case. You know, when we get the animals, some people just give their, you know, absolute. They would feed their dog before they would, you know, feed themselves. But for the most part, giving them back to a better home is something that I highly recommend. Anybody that people that have lost dogs. It's a wonderful stepping stone to foster. Yes. And to know this is this is what I miss, this unconditional love of an animal. And you know, to. Him, I want this again.

That bond is there and they're like, okay, just feel, feel that again. And when I see somebody online that has lost a dog, I mean, they're like our children. And the grief is intense. And so I reach out to them. And have you ever considered fostering, you know, we run a service, you know, for 30 days. And if it doesn't work out, call me in two weeks. We'll come get the dog. I'm always there to get the dog. And but one of the biggest challenges we have when we get the dogs, like you said, is their health. And so we get these dogs. Like, I had two schnauzers, miniature snails last year for about 120 days and for the longest in its day, and we got them.

And both of them had just a mouthful of rotten teeth, and they couldn't eat the softest of food, you know, they'd run up to it. You'd throw a soft toy to them, they run to it, but then it's too painful to pick up. We raised the money to get, you know, these dogs, the dental surgeries have all their teeth pulled so they could eat again. There's a guy in Coachella. His name is Angel, and that's appropriate name for him. All he does is work with rescues, services like me transporting these animals to a vet veterinary clinic in Mexicali, Mexico. And they are staffed with American that doctors that go over there and do service over there.

Amazing staff, probably pennies on the dollar for all these, you know, expensive surgeries. And that's all he does. He will sit in that waiting room and wait for that dog to be seen and treated, and put them back in the van and take him back to me. That is awesome. I couldn't believe it, like the first time it happened and I'm just calling him. He's like, you have to trust me in the process. I'll call you when he's done. I was like, really? You're going to wait for the dog to be treated? Oh my God, I couldn't believe it. He's an angel. Yeah, yeah.

And so working with people like that and working with people that foster for these animals were all about second chances again. So so let's talk about that a little bit. So you have individuals who are happy to help and foster. And many of those people come from their own addictions. And they've they're in recovery. And they see understand know the importance of helping. It's almost as if they can't help but help. But there may be other people out here who haven't gone through an addiction issue who would also love to help. How do you find those people?

Dog lovers? That's our only requirement. You got to love dogs and cats and birds were doing birds. Now we have a bird that we're finding foster care for now. And. And is it easy enough to find people to care? It's a huge challenge. I mean, the word is out about what we do. I get calls, I get calls at least 2 to 5 a week now from courts, probation officers and court clerks saying we're about to sentence this guy to treatment. He's got a dog. We heard about your service. Want to make sure that the dog is taken care of? How did they find out about your service?

It's just word of mouth spread. That's amazing. My husband's an attorney that works for the county of Riverside, so I imagine that, you know, it got out about that. And you're branching out. You hope, in Los Angeles County. Yeah. So we we get calls from treatment centers like breathe here in LA. Counselors that know me say we have somebody that's ready for intake but has a dog. What can you do? Amazing. I get calls from all over Southern California treatment centers, but mostly they are desperate individuals who've been living in parks and their cars and have reached that moment of desperation.

They're ready to make that bold step into a new life and say, I heard about the service. Can you take my dog? Our biggest visibility is is on social media, a particular Facebook. So people have heard about us from face I saw, you know, they follow our stories or foster stories and love the reunion videos. I would imagine that that would be so fulfilling to watch. Yeah. Well, the it's almost like putting a final chapter on a journey with a dog and a person. You come in and you're not sure how it's going to end. But what I'm always confident in is that always our stories end and love.

We don't know where the dog's going. Sometimes the owner realizes in the end, I can't care for this dog anymore. That's fine. A loving home for him. We have foster people that end up, you know, taking ownership of the dogs. And and that's just the way the story ends for them. And the biggest challenge right now for us is finding people to foster in particular. Like now, now that we're getting calls from LA and San Diego, San Francisco to find people so we don't have to transport the animal to Palm Springs to care for them. My hope is one day that we have a network of people in these areas that we can call on that are willing to be part of our foster family.

And the other is obviously carrying the expenses and getting these dogs to better health. Yes. So currently, how are you funded? Friendly. All by donations. We are just getting started as a 501 C3 nonprofit. We we got our status last year. And so we had our first independent fundraiser in Palm Springs in March. I was terrified we had it and it was a success. And so we're hoping to do more things like that. But we're looking for sponsorships. We're looking for people who are willing to donate, and you can do all that by just going to our website.

There's a donate page there. Even $5 helps feed a dog for a day. So we'll we'll provide all that information to our audience. But tell us the name of your website. The website is. G. That's great. We'll also hopefully be able to share the names of the two books that you suggest. They both sound like they're super beneficial and things that we can all relate to because we all carry some amount of trauma. I highly recommend them, and especially from somebody who's early in their own recovery and having a story that they're really kind of nervous about.

Revisiting. These books were sort of opening the gateway for me to go back to those moments and not be so afraid anymore to talk about it. And here I am, talking about it. To you is this is pretty beautiful. Just some random questions. So I know that you were struggling with addiction and found recovery before Covid. How did you manage through Covid? Was that tough? You know, for me, it was almost like my recovery became a full time job. I mean, we were all home. Yeah, I built a gym in the backyard, around the pool. I started working out. It was part of my recovery and the meetings just flourished online.

There was a zoom meeting in every corner of the world you could go to at any time of day. I did meetings in Australia and Belgium, in Russia. It was it was incredible to just reach out and know that you're part of this, this community that is worldwide. And so at any point you could go online and find where there might be a meeting and take part. Yeah, that's pretty fabulous. Yeah. And that's still going on today. Even though, you know, we we have in-person meetings again. And those that event Covid changed the way the whole system operated in a way.

But it had to change immediately. Yes. I mean, every meeting in Palm Springs went immediately to zoom meetings. And there were, you know, announcements online. If you need a meeting, you go to here, you know, here's the link. And it just kind of just took off worldwide. And you can still do that. You can go to meetings anywhere in the world and feel like you're never alone. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. So I think clearly there's something about your organization that instills a great deal of trust for the individuals who need your services because of the way you're coming to it.

How will you have those of us that are outside of this, this arena that you've created be able to provide the same amount of trust that you do to the individuals who need the help. So when we get a call for help. I have a series of questions. It's almost like an application that I send to the person in need of foster care. And this asks really detailed questions about the dog, their behavior, they're eating habits, and also about the person you know. How long are you planning to be in treatment? I need numbers of how I can communicate with the treatment centers so I can verify that you're in treatment.

That's our only requirement that they have to stay in treatment, in house treatment. And then what are your plans afterwards? When I get all of that information, I put together a post with some photos showing the dog at its very best if they get along with cats. I have a cat photo there or with children, you know, whatever. We're marketing the dog. I put together a post this is a dog in need. Here. The details. This is the time that we need looking for availability. When I get a hit somebody this is. I think this will work for me. We set up a meet and greet and so we have the dog and its owner arrive.

Usually we do it in a neutral space. So the the potential foster fosters dog doesn't feel like you're invading their, their property. So we'll find a neutral space and introduce the two to see how the chemistry works. And also for the person that is giving up the dog for foster care to kind of judge. Does this feel safe to me? This is a good person. And they had talked already. We we set up a communications early on and I introduced them. And we create a group. And we we have these conversations where before the meeting greet, we know who we're talking to at that point.

And so if the meeting goes well then we, we begin the foster care. And I'm, I'm a team player. I'm I'm with them through the whole process. Available 24 over seven. If the dog needs vet care, I'm there to pick up the dog and make sure that they're cared for. They need food. I take care of all of that. Supplies, whatever. You need some help. I do need some help with some people. It's not my paying job. So I have. I actually work to, but I wouldn't trade it for for anything in the world. I will always take every call that comes my way and try to find some way of helping them.

That's fantastic. My my biggest question relative to that relationship was how to help those people that need help really feel like they can trust the people that they're handing their loved pet over to that because there's been, as you mentioned, you just no ability to trust anything. For a lot of people who find themselves in addiction. So now, to put this thing that you adore in the hands of a stranger. Yeah, that's a lot to ask of someone, right? And so I'm glad you mentioned that led me back up, because before we even put the foster and the person in need of foster in communications, I've been in communication with the person that wants to foster.

I see, and I have a specific list of questions that I have for them to answer to see. Do you work that are going to be left alone? How are you with if he decides to have a little accident on the floor? What's your reaction to that? Have a good means of feeling them out to make sure that it's a good fit for us. Before I even open the communications with the person in need, and I've already looked the person up online, do they have dog photos there? And you see that they take them on walks and they're in the dog park. And you know, this is a real dog lover here.

Okay, I want to talk to you. But the best means of security that I can offer them is that if anything goes wrong and it does, sometimes it's not a good fit. I will immediately go get that dog, and that dog will be in my care at that time. And we will. We will care for that dog until their treatment time is up. Finding a home or that you know that we will care for them. I have four dogs, but I'll take a fifth. No problem. So it's having a team of people, you know, lined up just in case, you know, it doesn't feel safe. But we try to vet our people as best as we can.

But you just have to be a dog lover and have a little bit of patience. You know, for a dog that's going to need some time to diffuse and feel that that's the trusted, a place for them to be. Yeah. And really, you're right. Someone who loves the dog or the cat or the bird experience. Yeah. You've been doing this for how many years now? Seven years. Seven years. And obviously you love doing this. You're still doing it. What kind of feeling do you generally have? I completely understand the experience that you have when you're reuniting a pet with their parent, let's say.

But on a daily basis, how do you how do you feel? What kind of emotions does this bring up for you? This experience. The emotional roller coaster that I'm on on a daily basis and what could happen? What's going to happen is, is the reason why I still go to meetings. We have a serenity prayer that I say every day. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. We should say that a lot. We are just a resource, and when we're able to take these animals into our care, we don't know how it's going to end.

Some people leave treatment and they're, you know, that's hard to accept that that dog belongs to them. We have to give the dog back to them. And what I what helps me is that I'm planning a seed with that person saying, there is a solution. And when you're ready, we're ready. If that person calls me again and says, okay, I'm I'm ready to go back. Do you have any room? And when that happens a lot, we have two right now that an out and came back and and so we're looking for foster care for their dogs right now because they feel like they're ready.

That's so that's so beautiful. It's all about second chances. I mean, I don't know how many I got, you know, over the last 20 years, but I can think back. There were so many angels that showed up at my doorstep that I just refused their help because I was not ready. Right. You have to be ready. It's. Unfortunately, you cannot be Keith or gift recovery to anybody. It's a it's an inside job. Some people like me, I'm living proof. It took me 20 years to finally get this program and stay sober. And it's a day by day process. But being of service is a is the way that people stay sober.

You know, a lot of people sponsor people. I'm not so good with the humans. So I sponsor dogs, I work. It's okay. You found your path. That's right. Yeah. I wanted to do more than just serve coffee in meetings. You know, we find a way to try to be a service. I wanted to do something that would make a meaningful, lasting difference. There's another book I'll close with called Second Mountain by David Brooks, and it's about two mountains that we climb. The first one is the one that we all climb, that corporate one, you know, more and more and more and, you know, I get paid more and get to the top.

You see you over your company and then something happens. You get fired, divorce, addiction, and you fall off that mountain into a valley of depression. And it's how people climb out of that valley of depression that he talks about. He specifically has chapters on people that are climbing a second mountain, which is a moral mountain. He calls one of service, one of his changing communities. I read that book after I had started Pets and Recovery. I was like, maybe this is going to be that, as you said, to fill that void that was once the bassoon.

Yes. And then was my trauma that this would be a means of a purpose again. And it really has done that for me. I don't expect to get paid for what I do, and I'm totally happy with that. Being of service in this way has changed me. I just love that the opportunity is now catching on with other people. You got it. You got to give it a try. It's actually a really rewarding experience when I highly recommend. Thank you for saying that. That's one of the things that we're trying to really focus on here is sort of the the joy and the fulfillment that can be had when you are really helping other people in a way that comes from the bottom of your heart.

I mean, it's it's a it's selfish and that it's so fulfilling. And of course, it's more than selfish because you're doing something to help those around you. But you know, from the goodness of our heart, when we're not walking with our trauma, we can find a place to really do something so wonderful for one another. And that's part of the human experience. And on the other hand, it's, you know, a lifelong journey. We're never sort of done fighting our demons, let's say, or dealing with our trauma. We get more and more attuned to what that is and how to help ourselves, you know, sort of moment by moment.

But it's a fascinating journey. And, you know, the best part of it is really loving each other. So thank you for doing that. Thank you for saying that. And so so your future, what would your where do you see this in say five years this fabulous organization of yours. Not sure about the five years, but the vision that I have for the group is that at some point we have an aftercare program where when we hand these dogs back to their owners, that we have counselors that maybe are part of our, our, our mission, that have support groups that follow up with these people.

We have staff that would be doing job search and things like that for them to make sure that they are well supported after they leave treatment. You know, it's a big what if, you know, when people get out of treatment, what do I do now? A lot of treatment centers have after care programs that go to sober living, you know, and there's kind of a tiered scale back into real life, but with cuts and insurance and things like that, some people are cut off immediately. Some people can't even complete their treatment programs because of the limitations with insurance.

So it would be my hope one day that we have an aftercare program for these people. And following up with these people, you know, a phone call and a text is great, but I would love to be there in the room with them to hear their experiences in life and know where they are and how can we support you and you know, being successful and staying sober? That would be my dream for this, for this service one day. That's pretty fast. Yes. Well, I mean, I think we all do better when we understand that it's okay to get help and that help is not too hard to find.

And if you're not ready to, it's okay to the words keep coming back and just getting connected to a community that understands where you are. One of the most touching things I ever heard in a in a meeting one time, was when one guy that had a lot of time sober time in his in his belt, and he reached out to a newcomer who was struggling like me and, you know, with relapse. And he said, I really hope that you fall apart so we can put you back together. Oh. And I heard that in a meeting. I just thought that. Isn't that true? Like, you know. Just let yourself.

Do. That. Let it get in it, you know, fall so we can prove to you that we're going to we're here to put you back together. That's beautiful. That's a great place to end this conversation. And I again, I can't thank you enough for sharing all that you shared. And I'm so excited about what you're doing. And we're going to help you. However we can and keep on doing what you're doing. I've had tears in my eyes the whole time you've been talking. I'm so blessed that you called me Cynthia. It just means the world to me. Thank you so much. Thank you.

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