Nurturing the Feminine: Intuition, Emotion, and Dreams

Transcript auto-generated from the episode audio; formatting has been cleaned up, but wording is verbatim.

Hi, I'm Cynthia Marks. I head up the Holistic Psychoanalysis Foundation established by my late husband, Doctor Bernard Bail. Today we welcome Doctor Lauren Dolinsky back to talk with us. Lauren is a psychotherapist with a practice in Los Angeles. Lauren is an avid believer in Doctor Bail's work and uses his theories in her work with patients. She wholeheartedly believes in the importance of understanding our dreams. This holds true for her patients and the rest of us. As we know, many of us don't find ourselves in therapy for lots of different reasons.

But here we believe that we can inch our way toward better emotional health by paying attention to and learning to understand the incredible messages our dreams hold. Many, many of those messages point us in the direction of the feminine. That is to say, the feeling part of ourselves. It is so important to grasp what this is, what this really means when attempting to become whole. Today we are going to focus on the feminine and Doctor Dolinsky is an expert. So thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me back. Oh, it's so nice. And we look forward to more conversations in the future of course.

But this is a huge topic and we touched on it a little bit. Doctor Weiner and I, and we are looking forward to hearing more about this from you. Yeah, it's a huge topic. Yes, it's a huge topic. And it's so essential. To this work. And it's so essential to our humanity. So I'm delighted to be here to talk about it. Good. And most of us, I think, are excited to learn about it, because I don't think we really understand what all it entails. So before we really home in, what would you say kind of in broad strokes, does this mean what is the feminine?

Great question. So when we talk about the feminine, I want to be really. Clear. That we're not talking about. A. Gender. Idea. We're not talking about women. We're talking more. About. You know, the energetics of masculine and feminine, which every human on earth has both. So every human has a masculine side and a feminine side. And in this work. We talk a lot about. The masculine as the intellectual. Side. That's that's the more analytical, intellectual side. Whereas the feminine is feeling. That's the feeling side. That's the intuitive. Side, that's the receptive side of a.

Person. And it's very. Essential to this. Work because. As humans. This part. Of our. Nature has. Been through so much, so much. And so. To really start to. Heal and develop. That part of the. Person is when you really see transformation in the person, and when that person gets to really be themself. Like their truest, truest, fullest, most complete self. So that's kind of a broad picture of the feminine. I see and and so for all of us, what we want to do is have kind of a balance of both of those elements, the feminine and the masculine. Yeah.

Yeah. I think in a perfect world, and I want to be. Very clear about this, because we. Do not live in a. Perfect world. So I don't think that we have a lot of examples of where this really happens. But in a perfect world. The you know, first of all, our educational. System is very focused on the intellect. So that part. Gets an education. That part gets to develop. We don't usually have a lot of setbacks there. I mean, people might. Individually case by case. Depending on an imprint. But and but and that's necessary this sort of intellectual education of course.

Absolutely, absolutely. But I think. As a whole. We haven't had much of an education system of sorts for the feminine. For the. Feeling part. Of a. Person. That side of a. Person. Were really. Allowed to mature and develop. What we want to see is that part. Of a person guiding the person. So actually the. Feeling part of a person is more in the driver's seat and the intellect is involved, but it's following the feminine. So people, if you. Have a mature feminine, a mature feeling side. That really can guide you. In a life, you can. Let that side guide.

You and the intellect will. Be there to. Support it and follow. So, as you say in a perfect situation, the feelings side of us gets to mature and develop. And just share with us I know we've kind of covered it with you without you. How does that happen. How does that side develop. Yeah that's a really good question. And that's where. We see a lot. Go wrong for most. People. For most people nearly universal. So I would say. Again, in that perfect. World, you have. A parent, let's say the mother. Father too. But really. Attuning and attending to that.

Part of the child. And nurturing the feeling part of the child and helping them understand. What they're. Feeling and what it's about, and having. A space for whatever. Feelings to come in and have a home in that. Person. And those feelings of that child are all allowable. All allowable. That's right. All welcome, all welcome and ideally understood. Help. Help the child understand what they're feeling and maybe why. And then that. Child gets to. Develop that. And the mother in a perfect. World has developed. Feelings side that. She uses. To sense the.

Child, to feel the child. So a lot. Of times what we. See is. And maybe I'm jumping ahead here, but sometimes, you know. People will talk about. Well, my, my mom was emotional. Like, I know she was a feeling person. I saw her get emotional. But did she use her. Feelings to connect. To you? Did she use her feelings. To connect. To her child? And the feelings. Of that child? That those. Feelings get to come in and take center. Stage? Because that that. Often doesn't happen, as we might imagine it does. So what? When that doesn't happen. That's. When.

The. Person gets. Very creative with. All kinds of coping mechanisms and messages and things happen. That really quiet that side. Of a person shut it down. That side gets very. Hurt and injured, maybe put to sleep or sometimes killed. Yeah, it's it's, How do I deal with these feelings? I have to make them go away, or I have to figure out how to take care of them, because nobody else is helping me. Yeah, like. My message is, these are too much. Like they're a burden to people. I shouldn't, you know, I shouldn't have them. Let me get rid of them.

And then we come up with all kinds of. Creative ways to do that. You know, a. Very popular. One might be substances. Or. You know, and you don't even need a substance. Sometimes people. Just. Numb. They don't. Feel. So. But super important then that our mothers know how to feel themselves and how to use their feelings to connect rather than disconnect. Right? To do our children's feelings sometimes stimulate a need in us to unconsciously retract or yes. Yes, especially. Depending on what that mother went through. With. Her emotional life and her feminine side and her family of origin.

So how were. Her feelings attended to or not attended to in the family? And what ends up happening? As you get a lot of. Reenactments and we. See it everywhere. Of this messaging of, you know, knock. It off, get over it, stop it, stop. Your crying. You know. There's. So many versions of can you. Just get over it, be quiet. And knock it off. You know, get out of here with your feelings. So in a world where we're all understanding each other and your child is crying and you feel for your child, and you love that child and you want to help them through it, you you can't say, stop crying right?

You have to figure out a way to not direct them, but let them know that their feelings are okay. And in that process, do they come to terms with it and the feeling turns into something positive rather than negative or scary? Well, maybe. I mean, we have to see how it. Goes and how the conversation goes or the soothing goes. But if the message is, it's safe. For me to bring my feelings to you and you'll. Take care. Of them, and. It's okay. That's that's a big deal. That's a really big deal. You know, that's. Very. Different than. What we actually typically see.

Because most of us don't know how to say as kids, I'm afraid. Mom. Yeah, I'm afraid because you don't want her to then have to be burdened with your discomfort for your father, of course. Right. And it's so much more nuanced and complex than that, too. Because a. Lot of times there's already messages that we've gotten from the dynamics of the family and from the unconscious of the parents. About whether. Feelings are welcome or not, welcome allowed or not allowed, how they're going to be received. So even in like. A case where you. Have very nice parents, these are not, you know.

Abusive, mean spirited. Parents, sometimes. Already, though, the child feels there's a preoccupation. With mine. She's busy. She's got her own anxieties. She's got. Her own things going on. You know, dad, to. So what about me? Where do. I go? Right. That's very. Common. That's very. Common. So we just have. A million scenarios. Where this. Feminine side of a person. Really just gets shut up. And then the masculine side or the intellect comes in to sort of protect us. Yeah, that's a lot of what happens. So a lot of people get the message. You know, the other side of it too, is that people are very scared of.

This feeling side. They equate it because of what. Goes on early on, because. Of what Doctor Bail discovered, of. What happens in the womb. And there's so much pain in there and so much. Scary, scary, painful stuff. Feeling, all feeling. Is associated with scary. Painful, you know. It's all. Shut down. So as. The intellect. Develops, that feels safer. For a person. It's it's okay to go there. We'll just go there. And you see. It everywhere. And people try to solve the world's. Problems with the. Intellectual side. Only when you only. Have that side.

It's very limited. There's not a lot, and. Especially if. It's an emotional. Issue, if it's a. Feeling issue, the intellect isn't going to. Get very far with it. Right? So then there's so many examples of us trying to soothe ourselves with our intellect because we don't have the capacity to do that with our feelings or understand our feelings or the feelings of others. That's right. Like, if I just buy this pretty thing, I'll feel better. For sure. And then you don't, and then you buy another pretty thing or a bigger pretty thing. Yeah, that's.

Usually. Not going to do it. So I think so many of us aren't even aware of this thing, that we're not operating from a place of feeling. Right. How do we get ourselves there? I mean, we can't all be in therapy. Like I said, for one reason or another, we don't believe in it. We can't afford it. We don't have access to it. But yet we all are going to, I promise, I promise, benefit from feeling our feelings. That's right, that's right. Yeah. Look, I mean, my. Biases with the work that we do here. And getting people connected to their dream. You know.

What Doctor Bail discovered. Is when you start to bring in the dreams, then you're really working in the emotional arena. Then you're in the feminine arena because. That's you'll you'll see the feeling based story. In the dreams, and you. Start to get a picture of what a person's life has felt like. To them from the beginning. So for the. Layperson. Absolutely start. You know, just. Start trying to. Connect to that part of yourself more. Just notice. What you're. Feeling at any moment, what. Stirs up. What kinds of feelings, you know. Start getting curious about.

Your own dreams and look for the emotional. Story. In it. And how will you know that? How we how would you know that you've gotten to the place where you you've taken a turn and you think, I connect with that? Well. Usually you feel it. Usually there's a feeling, but, you know, it's it's hard. Again, I'm coming from the lens of doing this work. Yes. So that's that's where I see it. And I'm fortunate that I get. To help people with. That and in. This way. So we can have lots of examples of what, you know, how the feminine might. Appear. In a dream.

Of. What happened there. And obviously what you know is just reinforced again and again, because you see people here, people feel people feeling a feeling sorry. And even though I didn't have a therapeutic relationship with my husband, when we, you know, ultimately talked about enough of my dreams and we shared ours back and forth and that first time where I felt it. Yeah, I mean, I it was absolutely 112% clear that it was a feeling and just that little bit changed the course. It set me down this path of saying, okay, okay, there's that's what a feeling feels like.

Right. And what a beautiful thing. Yeah. Yeah. There's really something to it there. There's something to it. Since it is incredibly common for this part of us to be shut down and becoming, I'd say unfortunately, more and more so, I know we're talking about what can laypeople do, but how do we pick up the pace? How do we help men and women know that the feminine is of ultra importance? Well, I. Think conversations like. This hopefully will help. We have to start talking about this part of. A person more. I mean, I think collectively. And the good news is I am starting to see it in different circles.

There is more talk of the feminine happening in a lot of different arenas, not. Just here with us. It's on people's minds. It's on people's minds. So we need people to know. That this part is so. Essential. To start to develop. And nurture and let in, and that it's. Safe to let. It in and safe to start feeling and including all. The big. Scary things that come with it. And that's it's not easy. It's not easy because you're asking people. To feel a lot of. What they've been avoiding their. Whole lives. Well, and I think there's a lot of there has been a lot of negativity in a way, associated with our feelings.

If you know, you share your feelings, you're weak. Sure. You know, you don't. You have to come from a place of strength. It doesn't matter whether you're a man or a woman. Oh yeah. And men, especially men especially. Get a. Lot of men up messaging. Yes. Right. And, you know. The reality. Is a man who. Has a developed. Feminine. Side actually is a lot. Stronger in his masculinity. Too. That does not make one effeminate, that, you know. That's a lie. Yeah. You'll have actually. A stronger person, you know, all around a more. Just a whole. Being.

Right? And that's for both men and women. So we really just have all had. The message. To, to get rid of this part of ourselves. Yes. And for women, it's sort of you've got those feelings, but, you know, just suck it up and put them aside. So much so that they don't even exist. Oracle. You know, there were so many in the. Past. You know, women were really. Pathologized for. For having, you know, being histrionic, right. Or whatever feelings were just so misunderstood. Yeah. You can't you can't hold a job because. Right. God forbid you get emotional.

Yeah. You know, we. Have just really devalued this part of a. Person. Do you think to that if we were to turn this into a welcome positive, that that stereotypical scenario where a woman, you just automatically think you're going to put her in this position where she's in charge, let's say. But how long is that going to last before she sort of falls apart or falls into histrionics? Would we lose that kind of stereotype because it's not accurate? Well, it's not accurate, but I. Think maybe. We would just start. Welcoming what's. If there let's say anybody falls apart or has.

An emotional experience. What's going on for the person. We don't have to make. That a. Bad thing. Let's start to understand what people are feeling, you know, how come. Yeah. And why? Why are they feeling all these feelings. Yeah. And take the sort of badness out of that. That's right, that's right. Look, the problem is when this. Part of a person. Is not. Allowed to develop, we have really injured, you know. Underdeveloped, immature, feminine sides running amuck when you have. Like, the injured baby. Feelings everywhere, then no wonder. People are like, oh.

You know, who wants feelings running the. Show? That's not working. Yeah, well, that's because. You don't have a. Mature. Developed emotional side here. We don't have a mature feminine. We've got a very hurt baby. And probably the reality is a lot. Of the parents. Yeah. Two. Right. Underdeveloped parts of. The parents, we don't even really have. The, the. Person. So you know. Yeah that that doesn't look good that. That's not a. Healthy picture. So I understand why people. Are scared of that. In a perfect existence. There isn't one but let's say close to would we all be born into this world with the beautiful ability to feel our feelings and understand those of others?

Is it this trauma that we've been that we've had put on us, or that we've taken on the thing that's really stamping out the feelings? I mean, yes, to put it simply, yes, we've all got these. Imprints that have really done a number on. Everybody's. Feelings side, sometimes the intellectual. Side too, but. Definitely the feelings side. Of people. And when that has been so shut down, put. To sleep. Injured. Killed, annihilated, it is very hard. To connect to another person really, from a feeling place. And so compassion, empathy in a real. Way, like true.

Compassion, true empathy, not just intellectual empathy. Because. You know, I think. Sure, that's a good place to start. I think a lot of people try. To connect to another person. Because they'll think through, okay, I see. You know, it makes sense in my mind why you feel. That way. It's a very different. Thing when you get the feeling part. Involved. And you can really feel another person, you know, that's. That's different. That's different. So when we. Allow that part of a. Person to grow and mature. You. Get a much more compassionate person and.

Love flows. It can just flow well. Is it helpful to your point to practice, let's say, empathy on an intellectual level? Just let me try this on and see. It's not a bad idea. I mean, we definitely want to try and connect to others. But you know, I think the reason this. Work is, is so valuable is. When people are in this kind of therapy, you can't help. But start to get a picture of what. Happened to your own feelings. Side so that you can start to rehabilitate that part of yourself. And. Actually truly. Start to connect to not only yourself. But other people.

From a feeling. Place. You know. That's a different. Way of doing it. Yes. You know, put your mind on it intellectually. Think about it. Not a bad. Idea. You're going to have. A better result if you get your. Feelings involved. And but maybe that is a good place to practice. If we don't have access to. Sure, fabulous people like you, well. We should always do our best to. Try and understand one another. I mean, we have. A big. Problem. With that out in the world, right? So the more we can cultivate understanding, the better. Of course, that's a good idea.

It's just. You know, I would say the next. Step. In our evolution. Is to get the. Feelings involved in the process and given an opportunity. To really grow up, really grow up and develop. And if we're coming from that place of feeling. Which I would think would also cultivate love for one another, we can't possibly be as divided as we are now. Yeah. I, I that'll probably take a long time to say. It. But five. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Look that's that's right I think that's real. Evolution I think that's. True. Human evolution that that's. What we were.

Designed to. Do. Right. Become more loving you know, so. This way like who who would have thought. That inviting your dreams in and getting a good understanding of what you've been dreaming about your own life from the beginning of. Your life would actually help grow this part of. You and help your own evolution and frankly, help humanity. You know. So it's it's I think, like I said last. Time, it's. A really elegant. System. It is. And and those dreams are just giving us keys to our unconscious where all of this information is stored and is accessible.

Yeah. We just get a really good picture. That way we can do it without a dream. We can do an effective. Therapy. And we can get at the unconscious without. A dream. It's just slower. And it's. Harder. It's doable. It's absolutely. Doable. And when people come to me and they don't dream, that's no problem. First of all. They're going to start dreaming. Everybody dream. Everybody dreams, everybody dreams. They'll start. But you know, and it might take a long time. That's fine. There's plenty to talk about. The unconscious. Is everywhere. We can see it.

Everywhere we can access it everywhere. It's just when you get a dream, you're. Like, okay, there it is, right? You just get a clear pathway to. What's happening and. You really can start to get. That emotional. Picture, right. So if you'd like, I. Can share one of those dreams. I have a few dreams in mind, but there was one I was thinking about from a patient. Where we get a good illustration. This was after a. Significant period. Of therapy. Probably at least a few years. But this. Dream really. Shows. I wanted to. Choose it because. There's a universal.

Quality to it. Oh, good. You know, so this patient. Had a dream. Where. They were coming in on a flight. Like the. Flight was landing, and the lights. Were. Out on the left side of the plane, and they were landing into a really. Chaotic. Scene. And there was more that happened that were it was personal to the patient, but. They had to take a hard. Right turn when they got off the plane and into. The chaos. It was kind of like a war zone. But this. Dream. So in working through this dream and talking about it and hearing their associations and in the understanding of what we know from this work.

This patient. Was dreaming. Already of what it felt like. To be in the mother. And this was. The birth, right. And so. That baby already. Got the message. That the lights are out. So the left side is. The feeling. Side, left is the. Feminine. So the lights were all out. On the left. Side of. The plane, right. And then had to take. A hard right. Turn into this. Chaos as that's. The masculine, right? The intellect. And that's very. True for this person. Right. And the only way to really survive. That was survival. Yeah. I mean, that's what Doctor Bail understood, is that.

We we it's all about survival, right? So this is such a good dream because it's it's very common. You know, it's. Obvious it was. Personal to this patient. But it really illustrates, I think. What so many of us go through coming into this life and don't even know it, it's all unconscious, but. We. Already have the message. That lights are. Out on feeling. I better go. To intellect. Right? And so what happened with this patient? So they took that in. She took. The dream. And she continued. This therapy for. A long time. And we started to see changes.

You know, you have to know. What you're working with first. So first we need a. Picture of the reality. That's what the. Dreams are going to do. You know, in the beginning, for a long time, I mean. Throughout a. Treatment. You and the patient have to know. We have to know. We have to help. The patient get a working understanding. Of what their life felt like. To them from the beginning. And so, you know. Good for her. She has this. Dream where she's very honest and says, oh my God, I. Before I. Was even born. As I was. Being born, I knew that the feeling.

Side was shut. Down. So that's huge. That's huge. What a what a dream. Right? But then you can get. To work. Once you know. That, okay. You can start to wake that side up. Start to invite it in and. Over the years. There are many dreams that. Show a revitalization of that side. Right. So so this can change. That's that's the amazing news, right. That the wonderful news and it's hard one, it's not easy. It's not like oh let me just turn the light lights are out. Let me turn them on. No problem. Right. That's hard because that's very scary. That's very scary.

If you've gone a lifetime where feelings have been shut down. Hurt, whatever the story. Is, and that is so common. That is so. Common, then going and doing something different and starting to let them in is scary. It's scary. It's hard work. It's an unknown. Even though you might understand that it is the best path for you, it's still unknown. And even though you know that that your known is not good for you, right? It's what you know. It's what you know. It's what you know, and. It's what you have associated with love. From the family. Right?

It's your. Parents. It's everything. Right? So venturing in to that new. Territory is, is a really big deal. So many of us have dreams that sort of represent that where in our own format, our own symbols showing that you started out with this deficit, right? We've figure it. Out and yeah. I mean. I have. So many dreams that I listen to, and it's always interesting to hear the themes. You know, I had permission to share that one dream, but just the matically. We see lots of cold. Scenarios snow, zombies, alien. You know what? What? Let's think about oh my god, I have a zombie apocalypse in my dream.

What? What do we think that means? What did that feel like to you? If the. People around you. Are the walking dead? Yeah, right. Let's start to think about that. Well, and you mentioned to that boredom is that there's no feeling really. There's no. Feeling. There's no feeling. So we have to see if. Someone is feeling bored or disconnected from their life. Is it that they. Have their feelings side shut down. And is that, a coping mechanism in a way? Like if I just do nothing, if I'm interested in nothing, nothing can spring up that I don't understand or don't want to know about.

Sure. Look, we have to look case by case of of what? Any individual. Is. Doing well. And like you said, some of us would choose substances. Yeah. Oh, there's. So many ways or. So. Humans are so. Creative. Right. There's so many. Creative ways to get away. From feeling. And if we're stuffing our feelings down or not even knowing how to feel them, we're potentially doing physical harm to ourselves as well. Come out in illnesses. Or it'll. Just come out sideways in relationships or I mean, all kinds of things. Yeah, it really. They don't. Actually go away.

I mean, that's, that's, you know. The wish. The fantasy is if. I just. Don't deal with them, don't feel them, stop them away. Whatever. You know, then they disappear. Out of sight, out of mind. Yeah. Not true. There's still that. You still have an unconscious. It's just probably. Making. Your life harder. In a number of. Ways. And the feeling center is it as if they're always trying to come out in some way? Would I think so I think so, I mean. This side of a. Person wants to be known. That's why you're going to be dreaming what you're dreaming because your dream is.

Saying, hey, self, it's the deepest, truest part of you really just. Trying to get your attention and saying. Hey, here's, here's what's. On our mind right now. Here's what. What we're thinking about. What we're. Feeling, what we're dealing with. And if it's, you know, scary. Stuff, if we've got. You know, murders and post. Apocalyptic. Scenes and nightmares, you know. There's something your mind wants to. Start. Working on. But I can also understand why I'd want that to go away. Yeah, yeah. And people will. You know, sometimes spend a lifetime running from it.

Yeah. You know, no one has. To go there. No. It's just usually better for you if you do. But. And most of us don't. And I wonder what happened to us, where we got to the place where dreams are just typically meaningless. I mean, most of us wake up in the morning and go, well, that was dumb or what was that? Or I don't ever dream and and why would I? Who cares? I mean, when when we know you and I, that it is this valuable gift that it's part of who we are day in, day out? Where did we begin to dismiss it? Oh, you know, probably beckoned over. Eons, over.

Eons. But look, it's because look at what you'd have to face if if that had. Meaning, then your. Worst. Nightmares. Are. Significant. Then what? Yeah. Now you've got to deal. Yeah. Now you've. Got to face. A big nightmare, you know? And and most. People. Don't want to start. To do that. And make those connections of how that. Fits with. Their own. Life. So. You know, it's hard. A lot of people. Don't know how to make that connection. Because if we take just a. Generic situation, I'm not talking about families where. There's outright abuse. And and things like that, where.

It's easier to see, okay, there's real. Trauma here and it's undeniable. But a lot of people, it's easy. To deny if they've had, you know, nice enough parents and they think I had an unremarkable. Childhood. So if I have nightmares, that has nothing to do with my life. Sure. It's hard to make the connection. Hard to make the connection. And there's a pressure. On. Most people to, to think that they had a perfectly good like they. What do you mean. What do you mean. This nightmare has. To do with. Me and my. Life. Well we've all been busy from the beginning protecting what it is we have, good or bad or indifferent and I think so much so.

I mean, our imprint is to just keep that space safe enough where we can survive and protect our parents so they don't harm us. In the best way possible to just to break through that is is so hard. It's it's huge. It's very hard. Yeah. It's not easy. It asks a lot of people. It asks a lot. Is it worth it? I think so, I think so. To be able to actually have. Your feminine side online. Is huge. Huge. You become a different. First of all, you. Become more. Yourself. Yes. You become more. Yourself. Your life will start. Feeling. Better to you. You have more.

Space cleared. Out, enough. Trash. From that part of the mind that things start flowing a little. Better. But that's it. Doing it this way. It's not easy. It's not easy. There's not a quick fix. I wish there was a way to go. Here's how you. Heal your feminine side. Right? The ten steps. To heal the. Feminine. You know, we just don't have that right now, you know? Thank God we have this. It's it's just it's actual work. Yes, it's actual work. But you know, that that same patient, for instance. Years later, a lot of work later. Had a dream where there was.

A. Plane. Flight five five being piloted. By two women. So, you know. Because their ceiling. Was it's so beautiful, you know, that's such a it might sound crazy to people because of. Where you're getting emotional about that, but to go from a shut down, just no feeling, no feminine at all to now there's like a conversation with these two women. We're happy. About the. Pilots. They're in the five. Five, by the way, is. Big change. Five is change. So there. Had been. A big change. That's just such a beautiful thing to hear about and for you to be part of and for your patient to grow from unbelievable.

Yeah. And so is that individual really living a different life now. From, from where. She started? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Are her relationships with other people different? I think she would say yes. I. Think she would say, yeah. That's so beautiful. So I mean. I just use that to show what's possible. Yeah, that's an amazing amount of growth. It's a big amount of growth. Yeah. And you know, I'm biased. I just don't see that. Happening in other. Modalities. Right. Because because of this. Piece of bringing the feminine in that I don't see in a lot of other modalities even.

Look, there's a lot of therapies that talk about. Feelings and working with feelings, and maybe. We talk about. Feeling it in the body. Or a lot of ways. Of talking about feelings. But it's it's a different. Thing than getting them understood, put in their right context and, and really. Allowed to develop. In the way that. This work allows. And and I'm not saying no change happens in these other modalities that, you know, this just happens to be my area of expertise. But we get to see. Some. Some real. Transformation, because in the. Therapies that.

Are a little more intellectual leaning, you know, and I think Doctor. Bail talked about this a lot too. You can gain a lot of wisdom. You have an intellectual treatment. You're going to. Maybe learn a lot about. A lot of things, maybe your own life and the way. The world works. But it's all. Intellect. It's not. Is it more of a learning how to cope? That can be. You know, you. Can use tools. Yeah. When this thing happens that triggers this I know that if I go do this that will go away. Right. Yeah. There's a lot of focus right now. On affect regulation, emotional regulation.

You know nervous system regulation. That's a big thing. And that's fine. There's there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that we're not understanding what's really happening. What are we really upset about. If there's so much emotional. Dysregulation what's. Underneath it. Right. Someone can have all the tools in the world to keep them self. Very regulated, but they won't know why they are the way that they are. What are they actually so upset about? You know. Let's start to. Nurture that side. And allow it. To really develop. Instead. Of just.

Trying to manage it, you know. And I, I appreciate that, you know, we have a, a lot of pharmaceutical ways that we can make ourselves feel better, help us with our depression. Yes. And fortunately, we have those things available to us. Are we doing ourselves more of a service by addressing that thing that we're trying to manage with medication in, in addition to like continue to. Yeah. Look I think in a, in a. Perfect world maybe we go for a. Deeper understanding. And the meds if, if they're needed, if someone is in so much pain all the time that it's.

Like, look. You want me to come in and talk about my dreams, but I'm. I can barely function in my life. You know, sometimes we do need a. A helping. Hand, a. Crutch, just to get a little more stable, to start to be able to talk. Right. And just to be, to have the space to really start to dig in there. But I. Think digging in. There is. Important, you know, the meds. Will serve. In that same way. As like, let's just keep, you know, really a lot. Of the messaging that comes with. That, it's just the quiet, the feeling, quiet, the feeling just settle you down.

The same thing that you been told all your. Life, right? Right. It will just keep keep that going. You know. So so you're not going to see. That the. Transformation I just. Talked about that gets. Me so emotional. Yeah. You're just not going to see that kind of transformation with a medication. You know it might the person feel. A little better. In their life and maybe that's enough for them. And they go, I just I just want to get through my days and that's fine. Right. But if someone wants the deeper change. We have to get the. Feeling part of the person.

Involved because. There's no transformation. Unless it touches the heart, right? It has to touch the heart. And there's no evolution to this without touching the heart, right? Yeah. Again, a person can get. Wiser, they can get smarter. You know, and that's not a bad thing. And maybe that's all someone wanted for it. Depends what. What the. Person's soul wants. You know, how far does someone want to go? Not everybody has to go all the way. In and change the whole flight around and get on this new plane, you know that that might not be. Everybody's path.

And that's okay. We're just showing what's possible. You know, that that can happen. And that's. Huge. That's huge. That's a yeah that's a big change. The flight five five wasn't lying. That's a lot of change. That's a lot of change. And and just to think that something like that is possible. Right. Is just an eye opener. You know that that you can do something to make your feeling life better. That's right. Yeah. That's the. Message too, is like, if. You're feeling so badly, most people come to. Therapy because. Something's not going. Well. Yes.

You know, there's something that doesn't. Feel good. In their. Life, either knowingly or unknowingly, or I just feel bad. And you don't know why or. Why. Something, right? Something's not going the way you want it to. Right? So, yeah, you get to see like this is changeable in a big way. In a big way. How much you want to change it is up to you and how much you dig into this and how open, you know, it has to. Really. Resonate for a person. And it's a it's a road to get there. It's not a straight line, as we know. There's a big process. Involved.

Of actually. Doing it. But it's possible. And and I think people need that, understanding that. Yeah, it's it's possible. It is. And it's not just, sort of this airy fairy wish. I mean, it's a. That's reality is a reality. Yeah. And it's again and it's not just like. You know, I feel more regulated in my life. I'm doing, you know, and. Again, all of that is fine. Those that level. Of change is just fine if that's what a person wants. But I. Think the beauty. Of this work is that such deep. Transformation. Is possible. And a lot of people don't know that, you know, or.

They try all these different. Ways and they have more. Success. In some places than others. Right? But you know this. It does work. It does work. And I think one of the, easiest things to see when you are going down this path is the way your connections to other people change in just the most loveliest of ways. I think so, and mean you can look back, you know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, these were the types of relationships I had. That's right. And now I have these relationships and they're they're like this. They're not like this. And it's. Clear.

That's right. And it's precious. Yeah, yeah. It's not. Just like, oh, my. Dreams are so different. Know life is different. Yeah. Your life is different. Your relationships are different. Yeah. Absolutely. And as people are going through this and they have these dreams. So your patient had this first dream of the left side of the plane with the lights out their dreams begin to change. You gave us the beginning and. Yet there's. So much in. Between. And does that person see that. Like oh my gosh I'm not dreaming. Dreaming so much about that chaos on the right side.

It's a smaller chaos or there's not a chaos, or maybe it's just dark outside. And just. To be clear to that. Might, you know, depending on what's happening in a person's life, they might. Revisit that original chaos at various points based. On what's happening. So it's not like that magically. Just goes away forever. There's a different relationship. To it, and there's awareness of, okay, I know what's happening. Here. I see we're back here. Now and the person will know. You know, they just see things a lot more clearly. There's there's a real clarity that.

Happens once you understand the. Way this all works. So it's not just, oh, magically. That's all. Gone. There's no problems. And now I'm just. I've got. The women flying and it's great. You know. There's they're. Back and forth. A lot. There's a lot of. Back and forth and. Yeah. We and we. Get. Smaller dreams in between showing a strengthening. Like, this person had a dream where they. Were exercise. Using the. Left leg. You know. They were very, very dedicated to. Strengthening the left side. And it was, you know, very. Literal. In this dream of strengthening the left leg.

And there was a, you know, family members trying to interfere. And. You know, they were like, no, I'm not. Going to do this. Yeah. Wow. So there was a real. Dedication to it. In that, in that process too. And I think this is really difficult to discern is there's some amount of backtracking because, you I know Bernard used to call it the internal saboteur, where you're trying to get back to your status quo, even though it's not comfortable. Yeah, but you you're saying to yourself, you don't need to go down this path. Remember what it's like. You want to make sure you keep all those balls in the air.

Don't drop one. You're dropping one. Yeah. And then you have to almost battle yourself. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's it's not really yourself. It is. But it's. Not even your true. It your truest self is yourself. Yes. You're battling this internal. Saboteur. And your imprint. Your imprint. Right. Which isn't even really you. That's a lie. You've taken that in as you. And it's not. So. So much to know about what is you and what is. And that's. Right, that's. Right. But I think you is the part this feeling where. So I want to be careful about that too because I.

You know, sometimes a person's emotional life, they won't even know. That it's. Actually not. Theirs. Maybe they're plugged into the emotional. Reality of a parent. And we have a. Lot of. Peeling. Off of that before we actually get to. Them. And they're real feminine side. And so, for example, what would we be doing in support of the emotional of one of our parents? We would. Well, it's. Different than, oh, I'm just going. To take care of this. Parent. Sometimes we actually become that parent in a lot of ways. So you'll see parallel, You know.

Whatever that. Parent was struggling with, you might just. See a lot of parallels. Like for. Some reason, I keep running into. These issues. This is my emotional experience. I'm frustrated. I'm very. Irritable. All the time. My mother was very irritable all time. You know, you just get little clues that I wonder if it's really. Even the person if. We have. You know, someone with anxiety, depression. Whatever the. Presenting issue. Is, we we start to really peel back a lot of. Layers and start to wonder who's anxiety. Is, who's. Depression. Is that.

Sometimes it's not even them. They think I'm just. This way. And I'm just. Really irritable. All the time. They don't know they're living as. Their mother or as their father. That's so hard to grasp. It so hard. You start to see. It in the. That's where the. Dreams get. Really helpful, because then you're like. You know, you might have a dream where you're driving one of their. Cars or you're in their close. Or I heard. A dream recently where somebody had mom's really. Old. Flip phone in their. Pocket. And they didn't realize. It and go, oh, so you.

Didn't, you know, but. That's such a big deal. You didn't realize you have. Mom's old flip phone in. Your pocket. So we have to start. To think about what that means for the person, right? We've got an outdated. Technology. That belonged to the mother that you didn't know. You were using, right? So really, you're not yourself. And so, you know, with. Each of those. Dreams and each of those interpretations, you. Get, you peel back a layer, you peel back a layer. And you're just making space. For that. Person's feelings side. To start, to grow, to start to show itself.

You know, in time. Well, even I just this very last night, I'm embarrassed to say I shouldn't be, that I had a dream. I was in my parent's car. I was a teenager. I was in the backseat. My father was driving, my mother was silent. My teacher was on the phone and. And I thought, you know, for me, that was like a little bit frustrating because I thought, why am I still. Yeah, that's right. But it's one of those internal saboteur things. Well, I, I don't know, we'd have to look at. What's going on. We go. Okay, what what's going on in your life that you went back there.

Yeah. Right. You know, there's. But there's a reason, right? So it's always better to know. I don't think it's anything you need to, you know, get embarrassed about. It's like, oh, thank you. Thank you for showing me, I thank goodness I got the message. Now. Now I can start to think about that and go, wait a minute. Why am I going where? Yeah. Where's dad driving. Yeah. You know, if. That's who. Was driving in the car. So how is dad. Driving in my life right now. But so fascinating. Being quiet. Yeah. Yeah it's. Fascinating. It is. Yeah I mean when I woke up this morning and I remembered that dream so clearly I wasn't bothered by it.

I was intrigued by it. Yeah. I. Think you know that's. A good. Yeah. I mean people can feel. Whatever way they want sure about their dream. But yeah if you. Can have. Some curiosity. And some interest and then go How about that? Okay, here I am. You know how. Old. I was in the dream. And here's the set up. So now I get to look at how come. How come that right. Now. Yeah. And I have you to talk to you about this. But, you know, just even on my own, I can begin to ask questions about the different elements. And what in that dream made me feel something or what else in that dream made me feel something else.

And and like you say, why now? What about my life? What about the world? Right? That's right. Yeah. That's right. Because we do dream about things. We dream for. Globally. For all of us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Look. I mean, people will dream for themselves and they'll bring their personal material in, and that's so helpful in the treatment. It's so. Necessary. And the dream for everybody. So that's. Why I wanted. To talk about that. Plane dream, because I think that's. A collective. Dream. It's her dream. But it's it's so. Universal. So then given that we're in the end, she's with the two female pilots.

Does that speak to us trying to get there as a humanity? Well, again, it shows what's possible. You know, it's it's her dream. So, you know, that's. Her hard work. Hard one work, and she gets. To go through life with. A more integrated and mature feminine. Self. So that's a big deal. And yeah, I. You know. We are all so connected. So if. Someone can do that. It has ripple effects. And others. Feel it. And others will send, you know. Other people in her life will go. Oh my God. That's possible. Right. So we we. Have an effect on one another. That's why.

You know. That's Doctor Bail. Brings us. Back all. The time to the mother and the baby because enormous impact. The more moms start to understand this. And we want to. Be clear, because. I'm saying a lot of things that go wrong between a mother and the baby and that feeling when you know the feeling parts. Go sideways. It's better. We know it's not. About. Bashing the mom at all. Because. That mother went through what she went through in her early. Life. And so on and generationally. Right. We just now get to be honest about it and look. And when people.

Talk about. Generational trauma and epigenetics and all these things, we get to. See how that works. And the more we can actually, empower mothers. With. This knowledge and with this work and, and and with, an opening to their feminine. Side, their feeling. Side, you know, then it. Starts to change for the baby. It starts to change for everybody. Right? So it's such a big deal. That's profound. It's not just like good for. You know, any individual patient. I mean, yes, that's great. We're all connected. And I think it's it's okay for us to know that we affect each other.

I think often we know that. Yeah. But I think oftentimes we don't feel like we're entitled to affect someone else or that we just are so insignificant that we can't affect anyone else. But no matter what, we're affecting people. Of course, no matter our stance. Right. We always are. Yeah. That's why I was. Just thinking about on the drive over. Here that, And I might. Get the exact. Wording of the quote wrong, but there's that very famous Doctor Maya Angelou. Quote where she says. Something to the effect. Of, you know, people will forget what you said, they'll forget what you did, but they will.

Always remember how you made them. Feel. Yes. Yeah. That is you. I mean, we can all point to 75 different examples of that in our lives. Yeah. We have an impact. People remember. The feeling. Yeah. So. And maybe just enough to to have been made uncomfortable or curious or happy. And then we sort of move on. But if we were more in touch with our feminine side, we would be like drinking that in. I think so. Yeah. And we could talk about these things more. There's just more space. For that side. You did tell me about there a dream that a patient of yours had where there was a scary spider or they were a scary spider.

Oh and they were being hurt by family members. Right. So this was actually the. Same patient with the, with the plane I. See. Was this in between those two? This was in between those dreams. There was there was something. With a yeah, a big scary spider. And some family members were like beating it with a bat, and then it transforms into a little. Girl. And and the. Little girl basically tells tells the. Patient. Like, you should have. Let me in. I would have helped. So that's another one of these dreams where we. See what's. Happened to feelings.

Right? They they get so beat. You know, I just I feel what we all go through. I mean, that's so much pain. That's just clearly. That's right. People are so scared that. The reason I like this dream. Too, is it shows that this the. Feminine side. Was. Telling the person. If you let me in, I would have helped you. So this spider that transformed into a girl and the girl represents the feminine? Yes. Did. That spider does too. So that's. Really important. Because you'll. See in dreams. People will. Turn feeling into something terrifying. Scary, like an alien invasion.

The zombies and the zombie. Well, the zombies might be the feeling less. People see you. I mean, we have to see which way it goes. But sometimes there's, you know. Attacks. Coming from. Whatever side when it's. Feeling. So feelings get turned into something very scary. So this was. Such an interesting dream. And again, I think one of these universal. Dreams because this is. How the feminine has been. Treated. Right? It's it's. Been turned into the. Scary. Monster. That we're supposed to just beat away. And beat up and, you know, get. Out of here when the truth is, we should be.

Inviting it. And it will. Help. It's there to help. So, yeah, it's a. That is one of those dreams. For everybody. The feelings are there to help you. And it's it's a good feeling to know that facing those things, facing that scary spider or the monsters running after you ends up creating a better existence for you. That if you can face these things which aren't reality, but. Well, there is a reality, there is a reality that the. Feelings are there and they have been terrifying to let in. So it's very it is scary. You know, it will. Feel there's a.

Reason, I mean. All any horror movie that you. Can imagine, all the horror movies that exist in the world, guess where they come from? They come from the human unconscious. They come from our imprints. They come from what. It felt. Like to be in a womb. And we come up with some very, very scary stuff. I'm not personally a. Horror movie person. I do not surprise. Yeah, I don't enjoy it. But, you know, it's that's where it comes from. So this is what we're asking people to face and feel. So this is why we. Go, no thank you. I'm going to beat you.

What? You're two scary. Get out of here, you big, scary feeling. Beat you away with a stick. I see. Right, but again it shows what's. Possible in a treatment. It will transform and help. You if you let. It in. It's there to help. It's there to help. You know, feelings are always there to help. When you connect a feeling, you. Have a better. Sense. Of how to guide your life. You will know, hey. This relationship, it doesn't feel good to me. It might be familiar. This might actually be the. Pattern I've been in. Forever. In a relationship. But guess what?

It doesn't feel good. And I know. That. So I can choose something else. What a what a gift. What a gift. And so many people get. Stuck in that and they might know it. It doesn't necessarily mean they're numb and they don't know that. It doesn't. Feel good. But they go with it anyway. You go with it. It's familiar. Yeah. They're essentially choosing the family. They're choosing the imprint. This is what this was love. This is love. Yeah. Or and this is what my family would want for me. Yeah. Any of these things. Right. But when. We really get to let the.

Feelings guide, when, when we have the women piloting the plane, you know. We get to start. To listen to those things and, and nurture the things. That feel good. You know, and. More of that will start to come in because there's more space for it now. So you see, you know. Because the unconscious, it's kind of like. A radio signal that creates situations. In your life. It's magnetizing people and. Whatever into your life. Things will start to feel. Different, and you'll get different experiences when you. Let. Feeling in and and. Allow a healing.

Of that feminine side, you know, and. Really a resurrection. Because for so many of. Us put to sleep or killed. Yeah. And really kill. I don't use the term killed lightly. Yeah. You know, it's there's a brutality. We see it in that dream. I mean, beaten. Yeah. And that's not even, you know, this isn't. As far. As dreams go. It's not the most violent dream we can imagine. But it still look at. Look at what we're dealing with. Yeah, brutal. Brutal. And then we have. You know, many more violent, violent dreams and we go, okay. Okay, this is what we've endured and have tried to not feel right.

And we think we're better off by continuing to not feel, because the only thing we can feel that. Right? Right. It's only bad. It's only good. You're only going to hurt. It's only going to hurt. Right? You know, and we know. That the reality is you keep. Those feelings away. You keep all the feelings. But you can't be selective with it. You know what? I'm going to keep. The scary. Painful feelings away. But only the good. Stuff. Gets to come in. That's not. Reality. It's not going to work. That's not a real. It's not real. Yeah, it's not grounded.

That scenario can't. Exist. Yeah. We we need look. We're humans who I think came here for a more full spectrum experience. We have a little ways to go. Yeah. We do. And again, I really feel like this, this place of coming from feelings allows you to even attract different people. People that also operate from feelings. Or maybe you uncover the feeling part in someone else a little bit because you're, you know, sort of transmitting this. Yeah. People will generally. Sense. Safety in somebody. That has. A more developed feminine side. They're just not and they might not put their finger on it that way and go.

Oh, this. Person has. Got this lovely. Feminine part of their nature. They will just feel a. Certain openness and a safety and a warmth. You know, all. Of those lovely qualities. Those typically belong to the feminine again, the masculine. And I'm not putting that side down at all. It's so important. We also need a developed masculine side. That's how we. Go out into the world and accomplish these things and have. These, you know, technological. Advancements. It's a it's a wonderful side. And it's. Going to. On its own. It doesn't really need to be to addressed.

Yeah. And sometimes it looks sometimes an. Imprint can sometimes touch the intellect and, and put limits on how smart a person is supposed to be and whether. They have struggles intellectually. In different ways. So it's not that it's not part of the picture. It's part of the picture. It's part of the whole. It's we want both of these sides developed. The reason we're focusing so much on the feminine is, as we see in the dreams, and as we see all around us in humanity. This side is. Not. In good shape. Collectively. It's not in good shape. So that's where so.

Much healing and attention is. Needed. And we're in a little bit of an emergency situation. We're in an emergency situation. Right. So it's a good time to start. Listening and inviting. This side in and really listening. And really understanding and. Intellects going to be. There. It's not going anywhere. You know, it's not going to make a. Person stupid to start to to have. More feelings. You know, that that might be. A worry for people. I bet it is. And see, we I mean, we all think that if we put more in this cup, that means we've taken from that cup.

So yeah, no, not how it works. You can still be. A very. Smart person. In fact. You will. Be smarter. People with a more developed. Feminine. Side. Actually, the intellect can't help but grow from that too. Right? They work together. It's supposed to be harmonious. It's supposed to be the. Feelings guiding a person and the intellect following. You know that again, beautiful system. And for all humans. Any gender, any gender, not just women. I'm saying feminine, but all genders. All people. Right. So. Well, you are amazingly wonderful and you make me be even more curious than I've ever been.

And I can't figure out. I mean, you're just so wise and so full of feeling. And definitely thank you for having me. On to. Cry again on your podcast. Oh, but you're just I mean, your whole being is lovely and you're just you. You offer mo so much more than what is represented by your years on earth. So you you make me completely believe in a bigger, more beautiful picture than my little surroundings. That's so kind. Oh, but it's it's. I can't thank you enough for carrying on with this work. And, I mean, I just feel like it's part of who you are.

It's. You're not wearing it on the outside. It's on the inside. Thank you for saying that. And it's a rarity. Privilege to be able to do this work with people. It's it's the biggest. Privilege of my life. We hope that more people like you come along to help us. So thank you. And we'll talk with you again soon, because I can't help but want to talk with you again soon. We'll talk more. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening. Thank you for joining in. And we know this was interesting for you. So we know you're going to come back. Thank you.