New Parenthood, Caregiving & Comedy with Adria & Jesus

Transcript auto-generated from the episode audio; formatting has been cleaned up, but wording is verbatim.

Hi, I'm Cynthia Marks, and I head up the Holistic Psychoanalysis Foundation, founded by my late husband, Doctor Bernard Bail. Welcome to And Now Love. Adria Marquez and Jesus Trejo are with us today. This will be new and different. Having two people at one time to talk with. We've never done this before, so thank you for being our first. Adria is the founder and CEO of Latidos Media. For more than 15 years. She has specialized in the realms of social impact, DEI strategies and advocacy. Additionally, she has deep experience in marketing partnerships and community engagement.

Adria clearly comes from a place of empathy and love, as she has placed herself in the position of caring for the needs of others in very difficult situations. She hails from El Paso, Texas and Ciudad Juarez, Mexico. Jesus has been a stand up comedian for over 19 years. He is passionate about comedy and storytelling, as is made clear by his continued success. He is well known for his Showtime specials Stay at Home and Practicing. He has been featured on The Late Late Show with James Corden and The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. Also, he is the author of two award winning books, Papa's Magical Water Jug Clock, for which he received the Pura Belpre honor, and Mama's Magnificent Dancing Platitas.

He is the host and executive producer of Tacos Con Todo on First We Feast and the PBS docu series Roots of Comedy, where he explores stories behind the jokes in and amongst all of this. He has been a loving caregiver to his parents, where he found ways beyond the obvious to help them feel comfortable and happy, and to help himself find a smile or a little relief during the especially tough times. Beyond all of these excellent things that these two do, they are married to each other and have a beautiful newborn baby girl, Xoe, who I just met. They are learning how to balance family work, shared time, individual time, and all that comes with bringing a beautiful baby into the world.

So welcome and again, thank you. And there's so much to talk about because you guys have so much going on. Thank you for having us. Thank you. For yours. Of course I have to be here. Well, I have some questions, so I may look down occasionally and I to forget some of my questions. But first of all, for you, this your little angel. Both of yours is only seven weeks old. Yeah, she's about to be seven in a few days. And you? Seven, seven weeks. Seven weeks. Seven weeks. Yeah. And you are now no longer pregnant. You were obviously pregnant. This is what happens.

Yeah. And I wondered if you could share how you see what your friends have been through, where people you know, who have been through pregnancy, what are some of the things that seem important to pregnant people or people who are bringing children into this world today? Yeah. You know, it's been just quite, a journey. And a wild roller coaster, as I like to say. You know, the I feel like people share stories or, you know, people tell you and share their experiences. But no matter how much you prepare or how much people share what they've gone through, it's like you really don't know until you live it, right?

You know, you can hear from other people's stories. And, you know, I like to have a good balance of being prepared and research, seeing and hearing from other people to know what to expect, but also not try to take on other people's experiences and just kind of be present and live that experience myself. So it's been just like a wonderful journey to go through, very different, both expected and unexpected. What what is most important is just having support and having community and friends to reach out to. Having an, a solid partnership. You know, whether you're a significant other and say, we're in this together.

And although we both may be going through this experience in our own ways and feeling different things, having that solid partnership and reminding yourself that you're in a team is essential, is essential. You know, oftentimes this is the one reminding me, you know, holding up the mirror and saying, you got this, you know, and reminding me that everything's okay or vice versa, just talking through things. So I think the most important thing is just having that support, both from your partner and from friends, from family. Crucial, crucial. So being pregnant is really a gift.

And I don't know that all of us recognize it as such. There are babies being born every day. It's hard to remember that this is a unique experience, completely unknown until you're in it, even though it happens every day. It's it's an interesting thing to tackle. You know, this thing is happening all around me all the time. It's happening to me. And I never knew any feeling like this. I never had this kind of fear. I never had this kind of love. I never had this kind of curiosity about this thing. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. I would joke about that a lot because, you know, you hear about how it's such a miracle, right?

And the process and what a woman's body goes through and her mind and her brain, and you're like, what a what a miracle. And I'm like, this is the most common miracle because we all got here somehow. That's right. So maybe maybe it just does. It doesn't get the recognition that it should. Right. Because each journey for every woman is so unique and so complex and so just recognizing both the duality of a very common and reoccurring miracle, but still a miracle in itself. Yes. Right. Like what an individual person goes through in, you know, their pregnancy journey or birth giving journey is so unique and it truly is a miracle.

What what our bodies can do is astounding. It really is. Yeah. I mean, that was the first time I think I ever really felt a miracle was when my son was born. It's like, how did this happen? Yeah. But but to that, I remember also thinking being pregnant and thinking how awesome and unusual it was. And and then again, how everybody else is, you know, here because somebody was pregnant. Yeah. It makes you think about other facets of life like that too. Right. So what I think is commonplace or what I think is super easy may not be so. Or when I apply it to myself, it may not be the same as it was for Jack or Betty or Sue or Allen, even though you think we're all walking around with the same ideas in our heads, you know, those or the same solutions were really, really not.

And I think that's something to honor all the time, is that we are not all experiencing the same thing the same way. And even though something physical, like giving birth to a child is sort of the same thing. It's not the same thing. It's not. And recognizing that people go through this experience in different contexts with different resources, with different levels of support. Right. And I think that's where the the empathy should come in. Right. So this is something universal that so many people go through. Well, it's it's different for every person for a reason.

Right. And some of those things are individual and internal, and some of those are things outside of our control to. Yes. And some of us struggle. Some of us don't want to be where we are. Some of us are so excited, and all of those things are something to honor. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Especially when they involve, you know, bringing a little person into this world who needs to live a life coming from love. So we have a lot to do to help ourselves as parents and pregnant women. And and I don't know that I've ever asked a dad this question so much, but we were talking a little bit.

You were talking about your partnership and how important that was. Is it sort of weird to kind of be out here while all this is going on over here with Adria and Xoe and your do you feel out there or do you feel in it? I mean, you definitely feel connected. I mean, it's, it's Xoe came about because of, you know, us being together, you know, so there is some some. You know Xoe, without. You, yeah. There would be no Xoe without us. And and we quickly find out that there's no us without Xoe. Yeah. It's like a natural progression, you know that? Weird how that happens.

It's weird. It's, there's a sequence to life, and I think, you know, as the more life unfolds and you have these unique experiences, the more you understand it. But even my understanding is so different than the next person. It's basically what you guys have just touched on. I think it's there's a sense of being connected. There's a sense of, there's a sense of understanding. There's like the family is expanding, but so is our level of comprehension to this thing. So it's like, you know, people talk about that the universe is ever expanding. I think it's the knowledge that's like, makes us grow as a family, as a couple, as a as a person, as a dad, as, there's so many identities that grow with every experience.

So, yeah, it feels it feels awesome. It feels pretty cool. And it's amazing to be sort of part of the ongoing human experience or. Yeah, it's the most, relatable, common experience that we know of. I mean, it's it's life and death, you know, those two things that are guarantee that, you know, we're going to experience at one point in our lives and, you know, we're going to experience. No, some know like it's one of those interesting. Yeah. Things. So yeah, they cannot be avoided. They cannot be avoided. But they're very beautiful in their own way.

Yeah. And I would say he, he was involved in the know not just, you know, supporting me and helping do things that I couldn't do because of the I was pregnant, but also just something as, as simple as bringing joy to our day to day. You know, that's when I say I'm like, I'm so lucky to be married to a comedian because the laughs were always abundant, to sort of always be surrounded by laughter when you're pregnant is just like one of those things. You're like, okay, if I do anything right, it's going to be this, you know, like, I'm going to give that gift to my baby.

Of her constantly feeling my laughing, you know. And like, you know. And that's been great part thanks to her father. So that's really precious. So it was it was pretty easy for you to feel like you were part of the process. And I think it helped when you tell me otherwise, when you could see that you being part of the process was making Adria happier. And, and I would imagine there be days you're like, oh geez, I'm so tired. But I still have to do all these things. I still have people I promised I would get to to help, and I've got work to do, and you could take some of that steam off.

Yeah, I it technically wasn't anything different that we were doing that we weren't doing before, but it was just kind of like now I was under the scope of this process, you know, this, this kind of unfolding pregnancy into unfolding motherhood, fatherhood. Yeah. I was a part of it is it's almost like whether I wanted to or not, we were still living our lives as we as we were, but now we have a new experiences that we're doing it under. So yeah, it felt really nice that that we were still connected, if not more, you know, during this thing. So yeah, I think both of us loving what we do for work and being so invested in our careers, we both had to learn how to move at a different pace.

You know, personally myself, you know, I was consulting and sometimes being okay with reducing the amount of work I was doing or kind of like softening the landing into that third trimester. Right? Not taking on more work than I wanted to handle or. That's hard, you know. It's hard to do. It's sort of slowing down when you're so used to, you know, this culture of hustle, you know, forcing yourself to slow down and give yourself permission to to feel a little bit bored and a little bit of the, the slowness. And, you know, with Jesus, it was a similar process.

You know, he's so used to being on the road and traveling, and towards the end of it, it was okay. Like, I need to be close by a little bit more, you know, in case of or so. Also, you know, going through a similar experience of learning how to slow down and what we're so used to always. It's a big, paradigm shift. Yes. It's such a massive shift. And I read this where it said, it's like kids are starting a family forces you to slow down. But isn't that the point? You know, because we are so I think outside of that, we're we're built to pick up patterns and trying to improve and trying to find this, this thing.

We want to attain this thing. But it's also part of I don't think either of us thought we were going to have a family or this kind of thing. It's like it wasn't something we really considered. I, you know, I speak for myself that I was like, I thought maybe having a family wasn't in the cards for me. But right now, in this moment is like, we're allowed to have a different opinion and we're allowed to pivot. You know, we're allowed to flight. Correct. And and right now, I can tell you that it's like after reading that, I'm like, oh, that that spoke to me.

I think at a deep level that is like, isn't that the point to have you slow down? One? I think initial reaction is like, oh, I don't want to slow down. I want to do this, I want to do that. And now maybe you're not able to do that, or the version of doing that is different than what you thought it was. But again, isn't that the point? I think there's some truth to that. There is. And I mean, look at what came into your life and Xoe and the feelings that come along with Xoe and the feelings that now the three of you have together that you might not otherwise had if you didn't slow down.

Yeah, you could still parent and not slow down. Yeah. Like slowing down, kind of looking at things different as people call it. Quitting now, playing. But it's all how you look at it ultimately. Yeah. Everything happens for a reason. And if you leave yourself open to things, you know, you'll see those little magical signs. You know. It put things into perspective. I mean, we had this one funny, funny instance in which as we were getting really close, I think I was maybe at like 37 weeks, you know, his son was on his last trip, you know, that he said, after that, I'm not going to travel because we're going to be sort of in waiting mode.

He was up in the Bay area and, you know, he kept checking in. Everything okay? Everything. And we had talked about what does it look like? You know, if baby comes early, you know, he's like, I'm going to be ready to jump on a flight or rent a car if I need to. This one night, he's on the show. And usually I know, you know, not to call or text when he's on stage. But I also know that his phone is probably on Don't Disturb. Or like, I know that he won't have his phone out, you know, while he's performing. And this is one time I'm at home, I'm just sitting in my recliner being very pregnant.

And I saw I saw that he posted something on his stories. I was like, oh, he must be done with the show. And so I gave him a call to say good night. And I just hear he picks up and I just hear this loud echo. He goes, baby, I'm on stage. Is everything. Okay? Oh my gosh. And I say, oh my gosh, yes, yes, yes, please, please go back to what you were doing. And I hung up immediately and I was like, he's never done that before. But there was something comforting to know that, like he was you were that he was paying attention. He was and you know, and that I know his ability to bring that show back to where it needed to be.

But that he was he was checking on us, you know, he was ready to answer. I just I was like, wouldn't it be funny if I was like, hey, can you can you send some cookies? Because I'm having some great. Yeah. There's a, there's a level of, there's a level of mindfulness or there's a level of, responsibility. You know, it goes to the word love. You know, we started the podcast by hearing the word love, you know, and so it's there's a, there's a level of that in all that we do. And, you know, when you're in that position, there's a sense of you're stepping into this new responsibility.

So maybe you're a little more hyper aware that maybe if I was like my third or fourth kid, I'd be like, you know, I'll check my voicemails afterwards. But but again, you you spoke to that earlier. It's a it's a new experience. You know, it's something very new and you wouldn't know until you're in it and you're, you know, while you're in it, you know. So it was just my way of like, I don't know what this is going to be, but I could, I could, I could put forth an effort of mindfulness and, and, you know, showing that I care. And also you want to be there for those things.

It's pretty. Exciting. Stuff. Yeah. Yeah, it's exciting stuff. You don't want to miss out on those things. Even if it's you know, send me some cookies, you know. Yeah. So. Well, I think that, again, one of the best things we can do is figure out how to love these little creatures that are living inside, inside us, that we're already trying to make into loving individuals who have their own paths. And that's called. Bacteria. And because you want to read bacteria, that's what she's describing. Exactly. Well, some people think that. Yeah. Kids. Absolutely.

You're absolutely right. Yeah. It's, Yeah, it's special. Yeah, it is, it is. And here you're into it. A giant almost seven weeks. Yes. It's so funny in the beginning how that period of time, it's like, well, it's been seven weeks. Yeah. And you know, down the road like in a year you'll be like it's been a whole year. And then you think back about seven weeks. It's like that was like a day. Yeah. And but it's so monumental isn't it. All the things that happen in this seven weeks or the next 14 weeks and, and you think about this, I don't know if you are doing this, but I used to think about that little baby being kind of that way for a long time, a long time.

And, and it shifts so quickly. And I mean, that's so much fun to see all these changes, but you get so invested in a particular stage and it's gone. Yeah, I've been thinking about that a lot. Just the the perception of time is so different during that, you know, and as of late, you know, I recently had my six week checkup and everyone says I doesn't have fly by. And I actually usually respond like I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet where. I can say it's gone really fast. And I don't mean that in any negative way, but I think I have felt every passing moment of the last six weeks.

Right. Because there's just so much well, one, there's all the logistics of tracking all the hours and how many hours they've been since she a and you're, you're tracking literally every minute, you know of, of the the day that passes. And so it feels like the days and the weeks kind of blend into each other. I know at some point I'll look back and be like, where did my baby go? That's right. She's a, a whole child. I like to think that, like, we've stayed super present, you know, for the last six weeks. And sometimes that also feels like, oh, we feel really tired because the days feel really long.

But we can say that we've we've experienced and felt and. Yeah, felt every, every passing hour of the last six weeks. So how do you find time to also like you're still recovering. How do you find time to take care of yourselves. Like do you take one night or. I don't know what your sleep patterns are at home but there. Is no pattern right now. Yeah. I'm sorry I guess seven weeks. Yeah. There is no pattern yet. I don't think we have a proper sample size. Yeah, it's day by day, but it's like, to answer your question, I think self-care just looks different at second by second, minute by minute hour.

You know, we can keep going on, you know, day by day, week by week, month. You know, it keeps going. But I think in the and the day to day, there is moments in between where it's kind of like tap in and, you know, she adds time to herself, whether it's it could be any number of things. It could be watching TV, it could be just sitting there. It could be a cup of coffee. It could be just staring off into space, you know, it's like whatever time is, is allowing us to do. Sometimes it's taking a nap, sometimes it's, you know, going shopping at your favorite grocery store.

You know, it's like those those things do so much for us because at at our age, you know, we've identified what we like and what recharges you and what takes away. So if you're able to do even just a little bit of that, it's like, I think that's a form of self-care. Yeah. It takes a lot of communication too. Right. Like communicating to each other and sort of learning how to express your needs. And I will say that when you're in postpartum, sometimes things can feel so overwhelming that you don't know what you need. You know, you need you know, you need support.

But it's it's difficult to figure out what to ask for. Or what shape does that come. In? Yeah. What's the right thing to request? This is where, you know, HSAs being such a wonderful partner and it has so much experience with caregiving. He understands when he steps in and tells me, you know what, I think you need an hour to yourself. Why don't you go to your favorite grocery store or, you know, why don't you take a nap and encouraging me and making that space? A lot of things we do, we take turns and and there is shifts and there is. So he's equally involved in the changing of diapers and the feeding and also to express it for himself.

You know, I'm going to take a nap or starting to get out and do some shows. And he says, oh, I really enjoyed being back on stage. You know, he stays local. Yeah, local. But then he's like, but it was great to be back on stage, you know, for a couple of hours. And so having that open dialog. Right. Did you. Eat yet. Yeah. Self-care is such an important thing which I also would love to know what how you identify and when it comes to self-care, what you need and how do you get that? Because that to me has always been like, something that I had to learn.

You know, being a caregiver, how do you reach out or how do you express to somebody what it is that you need for self-care to get you back to your baseline or where you would like to be like, yeah, is there something you look for or look to ask. That's that is a huge topic. So according to Bernard, many of us don't even know that we can ask that question. We don't know that that's a place where we can exist. We just continue to maneuver through life in this little world of turmoil. And because that's what we know, we don't know, we're entitled.

Anything else? Yeah. And I think that's a it's it's really a shame that a lot of us have not come to a place where we understand we deserve to take care of ourselves, and we deserve to be taken care of by others also. And so really, what we need to do as individuals is find out why we're lovable and what it is, who it is that we love and know what love feels like and once we know what love feels like, honestly, deeply, we can honor that we deserve it and that we can gift it to ourselves. We can say, wait a minute, what is this feeling I have today?

I, I don't know, maybe that nap, I could do that instead of this and, and be okay with it and realize that you're, you're giving yourself this thing that is making making you healthy, stronger, whatever it is that you need and and to be able to recognize that then and other people, I think, can only be done when you totally invest in taking care of yourself. You can see that other people will also benefit from it, and it won't be a, a task or a burden. So much for you to help those around you that you love. It'll sort of come naturally. So to that mister great caregiver.

Not a great one, just, you know, doing my honest best. So you stepped in and took care of your parents when they were not able to fully take care of all their needs on their own. Yeah, it's I mean, caregiving, you know, manifests at different times in different ways. So there is more. There is not one kind of caregiving. I always imagine, like caregiving. Caregiving is a it's a two way street. It's like almost like this podcast. Right? We know our energy levels right now. And what we're able to kind of afford to speak into the mic is like, you're in charge of your own levels, but there is somebody in the soundboard going, hey, like, I need to, I need to give you a little more volume or I'm getting some feedback.

This is, you know, I mean, it's a two way street, much like we are. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm detecting that you're peaking or it's a little low. What's going on? I mean, yeah, but also they can detect their own levels as, as much as we can identify certain levels. Like, I think caregiving is the same way the mind is built to pick up on patterns. So it's like when certain patterns aren't, aren't the same, you know, you you have this sense of you mature very quickly because you're like, I got to help out. There's a sense of responsibility early on.

That's what we hope. We hope. But I think it happens when you're a kid. It's like translating as a form of caregiving, you know, when your parents don't know the language and it's like, oh, I think I know this, but they're having a hard time communicating. There's a sense of responsibility that's just nobody tells you to do to be like, oh, I think they're, you know, you you want to help. It's, it's it's love. It's like a natural thing that we all have. And that also feels good when when your mom is struggling because she's trying to communicate something to someone and she can't get it across, and you can, it feels good for you to take that sort of anxiety away from her.

Yeah, it feels good for you as a as a human. Caregiving, a caregiving could be a parent taking care of of a special needs kid. It could be taking care of a pet, a young person taking care of an elderly loved one, and vice versa. There's so many aspects, so it's like it's a natural occurrence, I think, to want to support somebody and in some way, you know, it's like like we would here, it takes a village to raise a kid. And I did a documentary with them in 2017 called Care to Laugh? We were the subjects of this documentary. It was my parents and I, and, you know, I'm following stand up comedy.

That's my North Star. But I'm also a caregiver at the same time, juggling both. So you can even call it the motif of the documentary, where it's like it also requires a village to help somebody age gracefully. So caregiving is is the opposite of equal reaction. You know, it's like for an aging parent, it's like you're caregiving to this final point. But when you have a kid, it's like it's a beginning point. Onward. Caregiving requires a community. It requires support of a partnership, loved one's community, family, what have you. So yeah, his shoes off and talks about how the tables turn right.

You know, from raising a child to raising your parents. And, you know, I think about that a lot. And, you know, when we talk and think about what kind of tools and resources are needed for, you know, a pregnant woman or a new mother, it's like, how come we don't talk more about the tools and resources that we need to care for our aging family members? You know, it feels like such a not a taboo topic, but just something that we don't talk about enough. Right? There's no equivalent of the prenatal courses that you take to like, how do you navigate, like how to show up for aging loved ones.

It's like you're navigating a whole world that nobody prepares you for. Yeah. And we're all going to go through it. Yes. No. You know, I mean. Not everybody gets to the different stages of of life, but it is just as common as, you know, for people to transition out of this life as it is for people to transition into this life. So why don't we learn more about it, right, and talk more about it? You find out so many people go through it without sharing it. Yeah, I've even talked about it on stage. It's like how the tables turn and it feels like I'm raising my parents now.

I go to a class to learn how to change a diaper, but I wish they had that for older loved one. You know, nobody shows you how to change a big diaper. No, there's a lot of trial and error, but there it's right. It's much needed to have that equivalent for on the the later stage. And then especially you're dealing with someone. Well so many people who are still cognizant of what life is about and have learned all these lessons themselves. And now they're in a place where, you know, they're surprised by all of these things that they need. And, you know.

Well. What am I going to do with this diaper or me? Or I mean, it, it is true. It'd be nice if there were as many instructions. I wonder, though, if we don't honor that as much, because for most of it, it ends. And sadness. And so it's, I think, hard for all of us to prepare for sadness, and we're sort of more in denial about that happening. I don't know if if that was the case for you, but. I mean, it's the case for everybody. I mean, sadness is, is is eminent, you know, but it's like there are a lot of help in, you know, having good communication with your with your person and community and also self-reflection.

I mean, it's like to be able to land in a place where it's like you challenge your own thoughts. It's like it should come from a place of a celebration of life. It's what you're doing for Doctor Bail. I mean, it's it's a celebration of life by remembering works. And we should be challenged definitely to look at it in a different way. It's very hard. It's easier said than done. I could sit here, blab my mouth, but when you're in a you're like, man, this is this is painful. This is it's. Tough. It's tough. So it's lonely. I remember being very lonely and thinking, I don't, I don't know what tomorrow is going to bring because I'm clearly seeing that each day is different.

And I've gotten to a place where I think this can't get any tougher. And the next day would be a new challenge. And I would get through that day and I would have taken on that new challenge when, the day before I said I can't, you can't give me any more. Right. And it is really something. And look how interesting that is. It's like with you, you're like, I don't know how I'm going to get through today. It feels very lonely. I think that's the number one thing that caregivers talk about. And it's with caregiving at an early stage or later in life.

It's there's always this loneliness, you know, it's like, and it doesn't have to be that way. And it's almost like the allegory of the cave. You just see things a certain way. But when you come out and some of this is this blinding, when you get out of the cave and you see this blinding kind of reality of like, I think people want to support my efforts and they just didn't know. So I mean, it's yeah, it's. I was just going to say basically the same thing. It's like you put yourself in this space and you don't. You either don't want to ask for help because you want to do it all yourself, or you don't think other people would want to help.

Yeah, yeah. And why do they want to come in and do this? I'll just do it myself. And it's comical if you think about it. It's like I need help or what do you need help with? What? Well, I don't know what, but I need help. I don't know what it is, but. Well, if you need help, if you know you need help. You got that much? What? What do you need further? I don't know, you know, and that's okay too. It's serious. But it it is funny. It is. It's like, that's the only way you can get through something like that, you know, like, how do you diffuse tension that can oftentimes be very happy to carry with humor?

Yeah. Yeah. I still wonder if one of the light bulb moments, you know, that I experience both through loss and now through birth, is there is a focus on the entry into life, the birth of a baby. And I like to say it's romanticized because there's a cute baby, you know, there's a beautiful baby. And, you know, but really, the process of what a woman goes through to give birth is not a pretty one. Right? And so it's just romanticized because it's like babies and cuteness and the beginning of a life. And so when you think about on the other side of life, when you're helping someone transition out of this life, it's also not pretty.

It's not pretty to watch. It's painful. But ultimately, isn't grief also a feeling that comes from love? Right? It's grief is, I think, a feeling that so many people have a hard time responding to. And that's maybe that's where the loneliness comes from, that people don't know how to how to support someone that's going through grief. But when you look at grief really is it's a it's a feeling that is base and rooted in love. Yeah, right. Is hard to deny that. Holding somebody's hand through that moment is probably one of the biggest honors that somebody can go through.

And so what kind of tools and resources are there to support someone through grief? If we look at grief with a lens of love, right, versus does this oh, this is a really sad thing. I don't know how to handle it. Yeah. I suppose there are some resources out there, but wouldn't it be nice if they could be marketed in a way that there is available as the resources you have when you're going through. This. Pregnancy and childbirth? Yeah. And that there shouldn't be shame around grief. No. Right. Like some people, it's just like, oh, it just feels awkward to talk about.

I don't want to burden other people with my grief. Like there should, like, what have we de-stigmatize the feeling of grief as something superhuman? And your experiences love for that person that you're missing, you know? Yeah, it should be 100% okay. And being able to notice that grief should be something that you, as the grief watcher, looks at and says, okay, this person can use a little love, whatever that means. Let me dig in. And maybe that person says, I don't know, like you were saying, like, I don't know what I need, but I need help. But just to keep asking the questions and hold the hand and be there.

But I think a lot of us can't, you know, that's stigmatized. Grief might, you know, mean you. You aren't strong, that you can't just keep on plugging ahead. We're not supposed to feel stressed or anxious or worried, and but that's all part of being human. And I think you can experience those things and accept them in others. When you come from this place of love, which again, we just have to learn how to how to start from love. Yeah, absolutely. So then you mentioned that humor is a tool that you could use in the caregiving process, and it sounds like you've been able to share that via your podcast maybe.

And these documentaries. So like what does that mean or what kind of thing would be funny and, and create happiness for either the caregiver or those being taken care of. How did that gel? There's an unspoken rule in comedy where it's like you're able to kind of speak to the communities that you're a part of your your personal experiences, what you can bring on stage. And I think because that was my lived experience and, you know, I'm still in it, there's a feeling of connecting with people who are going through the same thing, right? When somebody goes to a comedy club, they're either relating to what's going on with the comedian saying or they're drawn in, you know, it's storytelling.

So it's either I love storytelling, I love comedy, I feel like comedy has been my North star, and I've dedicated my waking hours to to walk in that direction through storytelling. So when I talked about caregiving, I found a community in AARP. You know, it's like, you know, at the time when we did the the documentary, they were working alongside Google, right? And they did a big research project, and they wanted to see what it was that caregivers needed time and laughter. Right. That's the two things that someone in, in the midst of caregiving is going to need.

And that's when they created, an event called Care to laugh? You know, caregivers and caregivers were able to come down to a comedy club, have dinner, watch a comedy show, and just just a break to their day to day and being able to do that. When you talk about your experiences at the time, like, for example, like I had this experience where I talked about my mother gave me a call and she needed there was a bunch of supplements that she would take and she gave me a call. I need these vitamins and supplements. You mind picking something up on the way home, a CVS or a Walgreens?

And I remember going in there and one of the things that she needed was this thing called, hair, nail skin, right? That the doctor had told her to take. So. So I go in there, the cashier was very nosy. I mean, there's nobody in the store at one in the morning, so they strike up a conversation. So she kind of scans this hair nail, skin supplement, and she looks at it. She looks at me. She looks back. Down she goes. How long have you been taking these. For, And I'm like. You know. Have your business, you know? Sure. First off. You know, it's for my mom.

She goes Okay. You know. So it's these moments of like that situation would not have happened if I wasn't a caregiver. And I had that, that open channel of like, hey can you pick this up for me. They're funny little things. I've even I look back to me in my 20s buying diapers like, oh, nobody cares. But you're so embarrassed to be seen with this box of diapers. And I used to go to CBS at one in the morning to buy them because no one was there. And you can buy little packs, kind of hide them. And again, same cashier, she goes, you know, I see you buy these all the time.

Who are they for? And I was so embarrassed. I go, I was like, oh, they're for me. I hate, you know, doing laundry. So I just buy these, you know, trying to diffuse the situation again with humor as best as I can. Yeah. Not a knock against her, just, you know, trying to diffuse it. And she goes, you know, they have men's sizes. I said, no, I like the women's sizes. They're they're a little more snug on me. But these moments may seem may seem not fun in the moment. You know, you're like, oh, I'm so embarrassed that they're asking me why. You know, ultimately, humor serves as my art form.

I take those stories to the stage and I can tell it to a roomful of caregivers and caregivers, you know, like. And they'll laugh because they'll have a version of that. They will. And that's how those tentacles of connection are formed is like, I get what you're saying. Yeah. And that that joke will resonate more in a roomful of caregivers, or it might not resonate in a, in a, in a comedy club, but it might resonate with one person that goes, brother, I know. Where you're going, I got that. I'm not alone. Yeah. But I think it even would resonate with people who are not caregivers, are being cared for, and that they could imagine themselves in that position someday.

And then when they're they'll, they'll be they'll remember that and think. Remember, bring a giggle when there might. Did doctor Bill have anything around like pain and time like like humor or anything like that, where it's like as it connects because there's a level of love there. I think where you're able to look back with love and go mad. Yeah, to some degree. I mean, I think he was very thoughtful about his life experiences and how as an older person, he could look back and see how directed he was because of, you know, taking this road to the left or that road to the right, and then turning some of the missteps into humorous experiences.

They weren't really missteps. I mean, they still led him to be where he ended up being and gave him the life experience he had. So, you know, nothing is truly a misstep. It's just an opportunity to look at something in a new way. I was I would say, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Being able to look at it on a different lens. Yeah. It's funny. So you if you could just take the opportunity to stop like coming down on yourself and say, okay, why did I do this or why am I here and what can I do with it? Where can I go with this thing that I just experienced?

I think that this comedy business is so interesting, because I do think that so many of us think we're alone in an experience. And when you hear somebody on the stage talk about some simple thing that happens in, let's say, in your life, and you go, oh, I never thought of that as being funny or I never thought of that happening to anybody else. And then everybody in the audience is doing the same thing. It's like, Yeah. And you can kind of take a sigh of relief and you feel like you're part of a community. Whereas before you were like this alien, you know, wandering out in space on your own.

Yeah. Thinking you're the only one who's got to buy diapers for their elderly mom. Yeah. So thank you for that. That's a big deal to kind of help us figure out a way to feel less alone. I think it definitely is a connector. It brings people together, I think. I mean, there's more comedy clubs than ever. Why are people going to a comedy club so much? Or theaters? You look at so many great comedians who are touring and everyone is like has their own style of comedy and why are they going to this thing? It's almost like, church like, you know, and it's like they're looking for connection.

They're looking for a moment of, of, of laughter to get, you know, to get their mind off of their daily problems, possibly. And we go so far out of our way to go. You know. Yeah. It's it's not cheap to kind of bring it full circle to what we're talking about. It's it's all love, you know, it's like I want to go share Laughs and I'm going to bring somebody I care about you know and share this laugh with or I'm going to go alone out of an act of love for myself. It's like I deserve to laugh. Yeah I need to laugh. So I think we all need to laugh.

It's really interesting now that you say that, how many different places you can go to find comedy these days. It's just it's like propelling itself. It's great. Yeah. It's a boom online. It's a boom in live performances. And also as a as a spectator. You know it's really interesting and fascinating to watch. Sort of the energy that happens in a room and that every room is different. You know I, I've seen his practice his material. And oftentimes, you know, I might be hearing the same material in different shows, but it has different effects in different people.

And so the makeup of who's sitting in the audience, it really becomes this exchange of energy between who's onstage and who's there. And so it's really cool to watch, you know, his shoes have a very disciplined approach to writing. And, you know, people think that you just get up and you're funny and you say funny things. There's actually a lot of discipline that goes into crafting a story and practicing and exchanging that energy in real time with the people who are there, because the audience is going to change for every show, and that energy is going to be dictated by who's in the audience.

Yeah, that's pretty amazing. Yeah. Comedy's so, so interesting that even with everything you just said of like, preparation, years of work, you know, it's like I've done it for a while. I prepare on a daily, I perform regularly, but all those things can be rendered useless because there is so many variables to control. You can't control all of them. No. You're just going to have good nights and bad nights, and you might have two bad nights and one night, you know. Could you do multiple shows? Kirk Fox is a comedian who I love his work. He he says it jokingly, but there is so much truth to his like like breathe out love.

You know, it's like it's like they just want to be loved. Man is like sometimes a heckler is like they're yelling or being disruptive in a certain way. Sometimes they don't even know they're doing that. They think they're helping or they think they're they're meeting in a good way, or sometimes they're they're just drunk or any number of things. He's like, but he's like, if you could just handle that with love. And I've always remember that, that is that. He's told me that sometimes you have to resort to what I call like a verbal ass weapon to this heckler, because that's maybe what it needs.

But if you do it, what's love? It's like, it's not going to be. You hope it's not taken the wrong way. I mean, I don't know how it's received, but there has to be a level of crowd control that it's like, all right, you know, it's like you can have back and forth. All right. We're good. Okay, I'm going to go back to the show because everyone around you paid full price and that, and they hate to listen to you. So do. But you do it with love. And she's seen me kind of like, be successful with it and and oftentimes not successful with it. But that's the beauty of it.

That's what you're like. You're like, okay, I think I learned something from this and I can go back and do it again. But that must be part of what keeps this, this journey interesting for you, in that you could be working the same set for a few nights, a few weeks, but every audience is going to make that set different. Yeah, oftentimes these feelings of imposter syndrome might arise because you're like, I know I've done this. Well before, but I can't do it here. And I'm falling into a pattern not being able to get to an audience. But comedy is trial and error.

Actually, you had a talk about imposter syndrome that you recorded was around imposter syndrome, and I remember that. That helped me a lot because I was able to look at that and be like, okay, sometimes we want to control so many variables and we induce our own level of like imposter syndrome. Yeah. I mean, I think the the concept of imposter syndrome is sort of being somewhere that you don't feel deserving of, right? And so whether you're on stage or you're in a position of power at work or, you know, and there's all these variables that tell you, like, you're not funny enough or you're not smart enough.

And even just the concept of imposter syndrome, I believe, is something that has been imposed on people, I think, to add to insecurities. And many of those insecurities are built around systemic failures, right? To have people not be able to succeed. But I think ultimately, you know, when you remind yourself that what you bring to the table, whether it's to a stage or to a meeting room or to a business you know, is unique because of your own lived experiences. Right? And you stand on that. I think that's ultimately what is the the best form of engagement and having a two way conversation with someone.

Right. You know, I believe that this is both in comedy and in career is the best. Comedians are not ones that just stand on a microphone and speak one way, but it's the people who are able to have that dialog. But to read the to. Read the room, to understand that a heckler is maybe just a person that's having a tough day or just having to have fun or and you, you look at this as a this is a two way street. We're both in this together. Right? I think it it's a good reminder, you know, when when you step into a meeting or you know, something that you find intimidating and to say, actually, like, I'm not alone in this, my lived experience has brought me to this room.

And so what I have to say matters. And also, I'm not the only one talking here. I should also listen. And it helps make it less heavy and less intimidating. Yeah, that's a that's a great thing to keep in mind. I agree with. Yeah. Yeah. What about like has Doctor Bail, has he done any work around that. Like specifically. Where. Yeah he I think he believes that many of us are most of the time imposters in our own lives. And that we are doing what we need to survive and not recognizing that we're not doing what we are meant to be doing. We're doing those things that unconsciously, we've been told we need to do to support the trauma that we've carried, that we don't know how to let go of.

We we've been told unconsciously, most likely, that, you know, you're not really very lovable. And so you put yourself in positions where, you know, you're not really very lovable. And so you, you, you're pretending to be this thing that you're not. And you come from a place of not being very lovable. You're what does that mean? You're you're shy. You don't feel like you deserve a place at the table. Or there's this person that seems to be wanting to get to know you in a romantic way. And you're like, well, I'm not really very lovable. So I'm going to figure out how to undo this.

And and even when it comes to career, you know, I am going to be an imposter. My I learned from my grandfather and my mom that the only path for me was law school. And oh, that must be what I want to do. But it doesn't resonate. It doesn't sit and but you're an imposter. You're going to law school when really you wanted to be the camera person at the circus on Saturdays and, you know, mind the zoo. The rest of the week, and you can't do that because there's shame to it. Or you might not be able to be in this comfort zone that you created for yourself, so that you could exist without all this love, or with being able to choose your own path.

You geared yourself. You fashioned yourself to be okay in the presence of others, to not disturb the status quo. Yeah. I mean, and that's something that I've, I've seen a lot in, especially in work. I'm trying to advance, you know, representation, diversity and inclusion. As of late I've been seeing more of a pushback on that concept. Right. And to say, is it imposter syndrome or is it that some odds have been stacked against your success? Right. Like how do you differentiate to say, oh, I have imposter syndrome. And this is something that I have to work on, and yet it adds another thing that you have to worry about to push through or to say, actually, it's an imposter syndrome, is that I don't have proper guidance or I don't have the right leadership, right?

Or I don't have the tools that I need for me to be successful in this position or my path to get to this position was very different to this other peer who got to this position through different resources. Being aware of that is just as important, right? Because then you start to understand what you need to ask for. So why do I put this on myself? Why do it? Why am I feeling this imposter syndrome? What does that mean for me? What is uncomfortable about this? Why am I here? What am I doing here? What do these people mean to me? Are they helping me?

Do they see that this is a back and forth that we're having these conversations? Wait, maybe I don't even really want to be here. I mean, maybe I'm. I'm really an imposter. Yeah. So no. So. But I did want to talk to you about what you're doing in the world of activism. And I know you're probably taking a little break here with. So, yeah. A little bit of maternity. Maternity leave. So. But what what led you to that? And what does activism mean for you in the work that you do? Or 15 years ago, I started down the path of advocacy. You know, it can have different names advocacy, social impact, activism.

Initially my work started with a nonprofit, and so I, you know, started my expertise was marketing. And so doing marketing and social media and content for nonprofits. Later that evolved into working across different sectors. So for a consulting agency where a lot of my clients were nonprofits or campaigns, sometimes political campaigns. So all of these groups that you were supporting with your work and your knowledge were advocating for something. Yes. Yes. So social issues, mission driven organizations, that advocate on a variety of, of topics.

Ultimately, a lot of my work is focused in, in advancing or advocating for values, you know, shared values, caring for immigration or support for homeless homelessness or, or, preventing, you know, gun violence in our country. And what would an example of your work be, say, toward the endeavor of advocating for immigration? I've worked with nonprofits that do work in immigration, and my hard skill set is marketing and communications. And so I often work with my clients in helping think strategically about how to come up with helpful, information to share, right, to educate people around the challenges that immigrants face or, you know, how to how to shape more narratives and understanding, Is that information for the immigrants themselves and those receiving the immigrants as the new country or town or city?

Yeah, it could be both in my case, because marketing is sort of the a lot of the foundation of the work that I've done. You think of it as how do you reach people with messaging, right, or content, you know, nowadays with social media. And so it's how do you tell stories to everyday people who are going about their everyday life to care about this one issue? Right. Well, you're ultimately reaching people who are being saturated with messages all the time. Of all sorts of. All sorts. That nonprofit is also in competition with the woman who's trying to sell white t shirts.

Right. You have to think about how do you educate people on facts, you know, on what what is the context? Look like? How does it relate to you? Why should you care about this? And so it's what we like to call sort of like movement building or sort of shaping, shaping culture through through content, through information. And so a lot of, a lot of this becomes, you know, a back and forth and building relationships, you know, with people and getting them to care about different, different missions, different values. Well, I think that's extreme importance right now.

It's so crucial. And, you know, we need to do the same thing here with our podcast. We're not selling anything, and we don't want you to come and pay us money to hear our message. We just want the most important thing, which is love, to be known across communities, you know, starting with each individual and then, you know, carrying it forward where we lift each other up and it's amazing to me to think that we we give this out to anyone, anyone, which is fantastic. And, you know, hope that some people respond and understand how precious that message is, which I guess is the case for anybody who's, you know, trying to do something to some degree of success on social media.

Yeah, I'm still learning what it's all about. Yeah. It's ever evolving, you know. And that's that's the challenge too, that, you know, many organizations and nonprofits in particular oftentimes don't have the resources or the budgets to keep up. Yeah, with their competitors. You know, when you're scrolling on whether it's Instagram or TikTok, you know, your your little video that you put together to advocate for this one thing is competing with this influencer who has very. Different resources than you do. Yeah. And so then, then the the challenge there becomes, how do you make sure that what you put out there is a substance and, and that it is something that captures people's attention?

You know, because the, the resources are very limited for many organizations. Well, thank you for doing that. I love that you have found a way to focus on helping those people who are interested in helping the rest of us. Yeah. And even, like a the other thing, too, is, like you, I've come to learn that your, your work revolves around educating the person that wants to get the message out there is like to follow the, the right and proper metrics because I think where you know, everyone wants, say, views or this kind of thing, but it's like depending on what the project is, is like there are certain metrics that you should value over others.

And then sometimes you don't want the most views, you want the most people to kind of interact and have a conversation about. So I think that's also kind of very important to to kind of dispel certain things and kind of shed the onion layers to find the level that's pertinent to the message. Or yes, it's romantic enough to say, I've got 6,000,000 million views. But of what you know, I've learned that seen her work and I'm like, oh, it's not the thing that we're all chasing. I mean, sure it is, in a way, but at the same time it's kind of like, oh, there's something at a deeper level, just like anything else or something of a deeper level.

You know, maybe you want to get to the kernel of it, the kernel. Exactly. And I think in today's world, it's so easy to get caught up in the rat race of I got to pursue the views and the followers and it becomes really transactional. It does. In order for people to be strategic with their resources, it's helpful to understand who is it that you're trying to reach and for what. Right, right. You know, having very clear understanding of your goals. Right. And because it's very common as a marketer to hear, like, we want to reach everyone. Okay, who's your target audience and everyone?

Okay. Let's let's get deeper. When you do reach for everyone, what do you what do you want them to take away from the three seconds, if that, that they'll look at your message? What is that thing that you want them to remember. And so oftentimes it's really just guiding, guiding and helping each other. Look at the North Star like what is the ultimate purpose. You know, forget what we call it. Yeah. But let's let's get back to. The what are you doing that's important. And how are you going to get yourself to a place where you can help these people that need the assistance?

And how do you and how do you measure that impact? How do you measure that you're being successful in doing that? For you to know that you're being successful, know you have to be clear in what what that mission is. Yeah. So sometimes having those conversations is helpful, right? Is just getting out of today's noise and getting away from the controversial debate is saying, okay, let's get back to the basics. What is it that we're trying to do? Because hopefully it is just today's noise. Yeah. And tomorrow is going to be a different noise. Well thank you both.

I could talk to you for another couple of hours, but I think I've taken up enough of your time. It was very swagger. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for having so fun. Very such a great time. Oh, good. And and do either of you have a social media presence or website that you'd like to share with us? Sure. You can go to my website. Just echo.com for upcoming shows and events and yeah, I post videos and upcoming tour dates. They're great. Yeah. And my consulting website is let those mediocre. So yeah, check us out and thank you so much also for the work that you do through this podcast.

Oh that's nice. This is such a wonderful conversation. You know, when when you reached out and shared what this was about, immediately were like, this is such a cool opportunity for both of us to do this together. And, you know, to talk about our work, but also just how we do it. Yeah. You know, as a as a couple and in partnership together, you know, we are really honored and flattered that you thought of us. And that is here. Well, such a pleasure. And you two both are totally all about love. So. Yeah. Yeah. Here we go. Thank you for watching.

And please get in touch with us with any questions or comments, and we will see you next time.