Love, Trust, and Transformation: A Day at the Downtown Women's Center with Guest Amy Turk

Transcript auto-generated from the episode audio; formatting has been cleaned up, but wording is verbatim.

Hi, I'm Cynthia Marks, and I head up the Holistic Psychoanalysis Foundation, founded by my late husband, the fabulous doctor Bernard Bail Welcome to And Now Love. Today we are exploring the intersection of radical care and deep psychology. On the streets of Los Angeles, in Doctor Bail’s Theory of the Mother's Imprint, he proposes that a child's sense of self, their very right to exist, can be fundamentally fractured by a mother's own unresolved suffering. It's almost a state of psychic homelessness, where the child is obligated to carry the mother's unresolved trauma, leaving really no room for their own self to inhabit their own body.

Since 1978, the Downtown Women's Center has been meeting this internal fracture with an external sanctuary. Joining us today is Amy Turk, CEO of the Downtown Women's Center and a formidable advocate for women's health and housing. Amy has spent her career transforming how we view the unmet needs of women on Skid Row, moving beyond simple shelter to create a trauma informed infrastructure that prioritizes dignity and belonging. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Cynthia. Happy to be. Here. We're so lucky to have you. And your organization is so important to this part of town where we basically are right now, downtown Los Angeles.

And I've got so many questions. I'm not sure we'll get to all of them, but if you don't mind, here we go. Sure. Okay. So, as we said, your organization was born basically in 1978. What was calling for action then and what has remained sacred in the mission ever since? In 1978, our founder, Jill Halvorson, was conducting outreach in the Skid Row community, and she met Rosa, who was experiencing homelessness. And it was kind of like a, oh, I haven't seen that many women experiencing homelessness, which they hadn't. And she then looked around and realized all of the social services that had existed in the Skid Row community, all of the missions only served men at that time, and there was absolutely no place where she could refer Rosa.

And Rosa is sort of an example of what happened when we closed mental health institutions. A real life example of, having absolutely nowhere to go after she was removed from a mental health institution that we decided to not fund. And so Jill realized that she had the agency and the power and the compassion to do something about it. And she opened up downtown Women's Center in 1978 as a a day center. And Rosa was the first woman to walk through those doors because they had built a relationship. She trusted her. We used to say that we had an endless pot of coffee.

We'd bring people in. But what was really the space was a space of safety and comfort. For a growing number of women experiencing homelessness at that time. And we've since expanded to, of course, address housing, to help women end homelessness. So at that point, when it was Rosa, there must have been pretty quickly other women who came to this new center as well. Yeah. Or women who were who had very limited incomes, who might have been living in other apartments nearby the downtown community of Los Angeles at that time had a lot of hotels converted into housing, single room occupancy.

But most people in some still, to this day, if you're on a county benefit called general Relief, it's only $220. Oh my goodness. So at the time, you paid for your housing, but it didn't really pay for your meals and other basic needs. So some women were coming to Downtown Women's Center who just ran out of money. But what built out of that was just the social connections. The peer support. The connection to the staff, to the volunteers and more of a community and less isolation. And really a safe space to be as a woman, too. Yes. How has your understanding of what women and the Skid Row community need most deepened over time?

Yeah, well, sadly, some needs haven't changed much. I mean, for the most part, the, the cost of housing has been higher than matches people's incomes. And the experience of gender based violence among women, if there's any common denominator of women that I see, it's that they've lived through such extreme trauma, whether it was growing up in an abusive home or, adult relationships. There were abusive or, you know, trauma just from being on the streets. So in some ways that hasn't changed over time, but I think the awareness has changed, that women are more able to talk about those things or have more services.

I mean, at the beginning, the Downtown Women's Center was also the beginning of like, domestic violence shelters and more places for people to go and a little more acceptance for people to leave relationships that weren't healthy and to sort of chart your own way. And maybe that's changed a little bit. And has the percentage of men to women changed? Well, women's homelessness has grown. And so nationwide and locally, about 30% of all experiencing homelessness are women. But that that inches up every single year, we see it in chapters a little bit.

So in Los Angeles, that's 22,000 women on any given night are experiencing homelessness. And from your experience, what accounts for that inching up? I think, again, it's the discrepancy between an income and the cost of living, especially for older women on fixed incomes. They're aging out of the affordability of housing. And so unfortunately, we are seeing more older women become homeless. Devastating. It is. It's awful. If you had just one minute to describe your approach housing supportive services and advocacy, what do you hope we would feel and understand.

We the people listening about how real change happens. I think real change happens at the pace of trust, and that the staff at Downtown Women's Center and our community of supporters are really building relationships where, where someone can then trust when we say, hey, we have a housing unit available, would you like to come see it? Or we have a therapist, would you like to meet with a therapist? We have a health clinic. Would you like to set up your, annual wellness visit? It's really important to have that, ability to reach people. It it's.

I don't know, I find it sort of hard to take big steps if I don't have someone there along with me supporting the process and just coming out of homelessness. Homelessness is is a deep trauma. And I think we understand trauma a little bit more that, trauma makes it hard to maybe move in a linear way. And our society sort of set up where like, oh, you need you make an appointment and then you go, but if your brain is traumatized, that's kind of harder. Yeah. And I think we've we've made it easier to help people take those steps in, heal from trauma.

I often hear people have kind of a feeling that people are choosing to be homeless or they're lazy, and that's not what I've seen in 25 years of doing this work. What I've seen is, chronic health conditions that make it hard. Trauma that makes it hard, logistics, like moving all of your belongings in order to get to a doctor's appointment or to a job interview, or no access to a safe place to take a shower. That's what I've seen. It's more like barriers than a person's personal choice. And I think it's easy for us to dismiss people in those situations because it's so much easier.

Not to look, because if you really looked and you felt something in your heart about this, if you really looked, it's very difficult not to do something, in my opinion. And so it's easier to look away and easier not to fund. It's a shame. I mean, we really, you know, especially now, need to build on that kind of community where we support everyone. And speaking of that, how is that trust level now of people coming to you? You know, given the state I mean, today we have people protesting within a mile, a huge protest. Are people still. Able. To feel like they can trust what's going on?

Well, I think they can trust the community based organizations that have been there for a long time. But the everything's changing. So rapidly that sometimes guys don't even have the right answers. And I've heard our staff feel a lot of, anxiety and stress around that, too, that, you know, we can't guarantee, for example, that someone's section eight housing subsidy will last for more than a year. Right now. The other day, someone I've known for years, she showed me a letter that she received from a local housing authority saying that the funding for her voucher may go away.

And, and I know, I know that I'm literally traveling to D.C. advocating on this subject. Like, I know that there's a potential, but I also know that it really well could go away. Yeah. In December. And seeing that in writing and knowing, you know, knowing directly who this will impact. That's such a stressor for that individual. But to have a place to take that right to is pretty, you know, there's sort of a sense of relief. At least there's the potential for a safety net. Yeah. Thank you. So you go to DC often to advocate. I mean, certainly now it's more, we're not taking that for granted.

Our voice advocacy is in our mission, a downtown women's center. We are not we do not have the resources to serve all 22,000 women experiencing homelessness in Los Angeles. But maybe we could go upstream and change the systems that create homelessness in the first place. Or advocate for more large scale funding. So we've always had that, eye towards systems change. And certainly attention federally is important right now. So when you say go upstream. What would. The change? Tell me about the changes that you would like to see happen. I mean, we believe that housing is a right.

So there have been times I mean, it wasn't really until the 70s when Downtown Women's Center started that, you saw people literally homeless outside. And one of the main reasons is that our federal government didn't provide public housing, and there wasn't enough affordable housing across the nation for just about everyone. We believe that if you fund affordable housing or public housing or, that we can end homelessness. We've just had various administrations and, and funding shifts since the 70s that have really, taken that investment out of public housing.

And the result is, you know, almost an insurmountable amount of people experiencing homelessness. Yeah. Like you said, very overwhelming. And I think, again, that it is almost insurmountable is just way too scary for a lot of people. It's just easier to ignore it or just get really pissed off when you, when you're faced with it. That's a tough thing to change. How do you see us making headway in that way? Yeah. I mean, for us, it's bringing people in. We have 5000 volunteers come through our doors downtown Women's Center every single year. And a lot of them, like myself, my career started as a volunteer.

I had some conceptions that I quickly learned were wrong. And when you can kind of see it from the lens of those most marginalized or those literally living on the streets, then I think it's a lot easier to think, oh, it is kind of a systems problem, and I have agency and power. I can call my elected officials or I can get a group of my friends together. We can fundraise to the degree that we can. And you know, take some steps towards a solution. So I think that being close in proximity, I think it's easy to drive around Los Angeles and see it and get frustrated, but to not really understand it.

Yeah. The depths of this. Absolutely. I think that's largely what's happening. So when you, first began volunteering and you said you had some ideas about how you thought things were going along, what what were some of your misconceptions? I think that a little bit of like, well, just apply for a job or, the only interests along the way. That led to this. But now there's maybe a choice I make choices. But right now I have enough money to like get out of a bad choice, like a parking ticket or you know, maybe I, I didn't pay my credit card bill on time or something, but I, I have enough money to fix that problem.

And some people can just, like, spiral into lots of problems when you don't have the money to fix the problem. And I just hadn't seen I didn't realize how vast it was to, I mean, I, I had lived in places where you didn't see homelessness as much, so I wasn't aware of how vast it was. I hadn't been to the Skid Row community just yet, or any place like that. In Los Angeles has the largest homeless population in the United States. We do, in terms of people who live outside. New York has a larger population, but the way they've addressed it is to, have a right to shelter.

So technically there's enough beds in New York so you don't see homelessness as much. Whereas in Los Angeles, I think because of the weather, we've sort of skirted away from building enough shelter beds to accommodate everyone else. And then in New York, they have beds. And is it really kind of the the goal or the urgency just to get people off the streets and not necessarily provide other services. Limited by funding? So their priorities have been to fund shelter, which kind of shrinks the pot of money for permanent housing, and certainly lack of available housing in communities where there was still housing stock vacancy, particularly in affordable buildings.

Then you've seen, a greater ability to end homelessness in those communities. But along with that, the services to help those individuals become whole again is super important. Yeah, the services are critical. Yeah. At least for who we serve. Those who've been homeless for a number of years who have chronic health conditions, severe mental illness, they need long term support. It's not just housing. And then see you later. It's housing and a lot of, connection with the case manager, mental health clinician in the housing that we own and Downtown Women's Center.

We have an occupational therapist and a registered nurse. So it's independent living, but with a lot of support tailored to that person. And not everyone experiencing homelessness needs that level of care. Some people can quickly resolve a financial matter and and then be able to live independently, but about 30% really needs intensive care, really over the course of a lifetime. And that's really where Downtown Women's Center, targets our resources. And for some of those women, would it be just a matter of helping those individuals maintain? And for others, it's it's helping them heal.

Yeah. We are healing for everyone for sure. We do help people move into employment. Some of that employment is within our social enterprise, which we call made by Downtown Women's Center. Which is awesome, and it's a great place to visit. It's fun. It's open to the community, two locations, a coffee shop and a resale boutique. And then we sell our products online. But the healing side of the social enterprises is what I think is most important about the business. We're training about 50 women and on the job training through the business every single year.

And it's not that folks are needing to learn the technical skill of how to make a delicious cup of coffee, but what they are needing is more time to be with peers, supportive employers to regain that sense of self-esteem that I think is taken for granted, as one of the key ingredients of what's needed in employment. Yeah. And to also, you know, understand what responsibility is and to feel like you're part of the puzzle. Without you, it doesn't work as well. That is great. And do a lot of those individuals then take those skills and move out into the community.

Yes. Yeah. So we're building resumes. We have staff that helps them think about other jobs to apply for. So some might move into jobs that are more long term a downtown women's center. But certainly people are looking for employment anywhere. How is it difficult with the history of a lot of the women? That must make it sometimes more difficult on the outside of what you do to actually find a receptive employer. Yeah. It's definitely resolving just real basic things like making sure that someone has a place to take a shower before an interview and has the right outfit.

So those are things that we can help with in transportation to get to interviews. That the resume reads real well and that we're practicing an interview is really important. So that's really where we can just easily help people. And then also like the mental health side of helping people just feel confident to be able to take those steps and, and when in employment, you know, managing all that comes up in employment to things that maybe you don't need to address with your supervisor. But if you have a supportive person on the other side, you can chat with as well.

And what percentage of the women you help are actually able to take that pretty fabulous step? Yeah, we help about 200 women a year move into permanent, not permanent, excuse me? Employment. Okay, that's that's commendable for sure. For sure. What is the most harmful myth we tell ourselves about people experiencing homelessness and what is the truer, more honest story that deserves to be heard? If we really want lasting change? You know, we employ a practice called trauma informed care, which, simply put, means it's not what's wrong with you. It's what happened to you.

I love that I think the myth is that people think something's wrong with you. You're a. Bad person. Yeah. You did something to deserve this. But really, something has happened to that person. And usually it's a deep, deep trauma. So given that it's a deep trauma, how are you. Investigating that, helping that person with that, that seems like whatever that deep trauma is needs a ton of psychological input. We think foremost that we we're open every single day of the week. So we're not creating ways that makes it hard to access. People can walk in on their own.

There's not a forced intake. You can kind of take it at your pace. We meet the basic needs first. We prepare really delicious meals, and we have a bathroom and a shower. So already you're kind of feeling like at ease. When you're, when you walk through our doors. And that you've been cared for in a way that you're not used to in your day to day. So that's intentional. It's a people need it. But it's also intentional to not assume that someone is ready to sit down with a therapist right away. Yeah. Probably not, and probably not to share. And like, asked invasive questions.

To. Share. So we we work at their pace. We want to work as fast as possible. But that might not be the that might make someone not come back the next day. If we go too fast. And where are your therapists coming from? Oh, from, all the local schools we partner and we, we bring in interns, therapists as interns first. And many come on as full time staff. So, yeah, we're working with social workers, marriage and family therapists, substance use counselors. Mostly from all the local schools. Yeah. And then are there others in the profession who are just interested in giving of their time?

Yes. We have we do have volunteers, of course, that help. We, have people help us run support groups. Not just individual therapy. Art therapy. We have a dance therapist who's a volunteer. So cool. So we don't assume that it. And it might not be culturally appropriate to suggest sit down therapies. The right intervention. It might be about more body movement and dance and poetry or art. Yeah. Or you know having a meal together and just kind of getting to know each other. All that can be very. How do women experience homelessness different from other populations?

I hear women talk about how scared they are, to like, a just a night outside. I can't even. Imagine. Not at all. With no access to a bathroom, which is a little more challenging for a woman than a man. The level of of sexual assault and abuse on the streets is you're more vulnerable to it when you're living outside. So that's terrifying for women. And so that is a pretty common occurrence. It's not uncommon. And it is a back to the the myth part. People tend to believe that people experiencing homelessness are more likely to perpetuate violence or perpetrate violence, whereas they're usually more the recipient of violence, whether men are women.

It's certainly women are just terrified. I've talked to women who intentionally do not shower and intentionally like wear a lot of clothing, anything to kind of make them not appealing. Yes. Whatsoever as a form of protection. Yeah. It's I, I'm, it is as you say, it's unimaginable. And is that fear. One of the things that drives women to say come spend the day with you, even if they do have to go back to that at night. Yeah. Even just to have any place of solace and safety. How do people first find their way to you. And when someone isn't ready or doesn't feel safe enough to accept help.

What do you do to build that trust? You know, people find us through the network of social services that are making referrals and that we've been in the community for almost 50 years. People know physically where we are. A few years ago we created our own outreach team. And they have had incredible results really meeting women who, have been living outside for years and years. Most of them actually knew that we existed. But for example, one woman, needed crutches. Like she couldn't physically get up. And so we brought in a street outreach team, and they helped her, and we got her a wheelchair.

And then she was able to come in, and then we helped her find housing. And I think it was our teams gender lens, their sort of expertise we kind of saw. And then there's there is women living in the Skid Row community who are, in domestic violence relationships. And we can't leave their tent without that becoming a problem. Yeah. And our team has, for one woman in particular, has developed a system where she puts up a little sign that indicates it's okay for them to come talk to her. Amazing. And then when that sign's not there, they don't have to.

And I think that was missing in the community. Just a team that really understands what women are going through. And so that's kind of our newest way into all of our services. You hear so many times that there are individuals trying to do outreach in homeless communities with no success. Like nobody wants to hear from them. Nobody wants to talk to them. But it sounds like that's not the reality. Yeah. And you need it only goes so far. You can be handing out bottles of water is critical. But people want more. And sometimes an outreach person doesn't have anything to offer.

There's not a shelter bed or. But if you can try to like build into an actual resource then it's worth it. So you can't just have an outreach team in isolation. You need an outreach team that's connected. That's able to do something. And are the people that do the outreach part of what you're working on come to this with some sort of education about how best to deal with this. It's a, it's a team. So we have a person who has lived through homelessness themselves. We have a clinician and a case manager, and a manager who has been doing the work for a long time.

So it's a team that just really gets it. They're willing to roll up their sleeves every single day. So they go out every day in some form. That is awesome. What a what a, task. I mean. To put yourself in, in that place where you can, you have the potential to really help someone and to get them to come on board with that help must just be, you know, very rewarding if you I mean, I think that if you could even do this and sort of selfishly feel some joy that you were able to help someone move up a step or to just go be selfish. Oh yeah. I feel really selfish in this work.

Yeah. I mean, it is like what I receive is feels like more than I have the resources to give to you is. It's just really amazing. My most favorite moments have been seeing a woman get her keys again and help turning the door and just. I'm sure, how many or what portion of people that you, can assist would like assistance, but there's some kind of addiction issue that's in between those two places. And how do you help them deal with that or are there? I'm sure there are instances where there's not a whole lot you can do. Well, we find that permanent housing actually helps the addiction subside a little bit.

So many people are using that as a way to cope through sleeping outside at night, or being outside and having the safety of a of a hotel room, a shelter bed, a permanent house minimizes the use. It just that's messy. And it might. Nullify and still have an addiction issue. Yes. Not to say we're not doing everything possible. Sure. To help them address that and make sure everyone is safe. But that's a big stopping block. It can that you cannot go here if you. Yeah, that's tough. Because you're. Putting the onus on that individual to figure out how to take care of their own addiction.

Yeah. And there there does need to be more inpatient in treatment. I mean, it's literally medically unsafe for some people to stop using substances. They might die. So you need medical detox. And there's so few places where that takes place. And do you point people in the direction of those kinds of services? Sure. And there's nothing better than, like, you know, that there's an available treatment bed open and you go to someone and say, would you like it today? And they say, yes, because usually when someone says yes and you don't have it available, then you've got to like regain and find the right window again.

And if someone doesn't say yes, you say, I don't want your bed. Do you say, okay, well, you know, we'll come back again on Tuesday and talk again. Yeah. We might come out with the doctor, we might provide a little more education, might come out with someone who is in sobriety themselves, and they can share a little bit about their experience. So we'll keep trying. Homelessness, as we know, can make people feel unworthy or invisible. How does your organization create access without shame? I think you've pretty well described that, but if you want to.

Give it in there. Yeah, I mean, there's maybe there's no worse feeling than shame for anyone, and it keeps. Us from doing all sorts of things. So we try to like just prevent it from the start. Like, you know, we our staff are not blaming people for anything. They're not asking invasive questions without permission or without a reason to to ask. Just not out of curiosity. But like I'm asking you this because they will help you qualify for this. We're helping people believe in themselves. Again, that happens so clearly in the women that work in our social enterprise.

Just the turnaround of self-confidence that I see as I'm buying my morning cup of coffee and someone is ringing me up who's in the program? Every day I see her just get a little more, like, savvy and, more approachable. And, you can tell there's more like, joy in her step. Oh, it must be so heartwarming to see that transition for someone. It is. I wish that there were a million places that were, you know, able to do what we're doing. And of course, we do have that funding issue. But, So this is amazing. Your organization serves nearly 5000 people annually.

Each person, of course, has a unique story. But what patterns or common challenges emerge? Yeah. I mean, stressing the unique story. Everyone in it just comes with their own human experience that led them to our doors. And the common denominator that I see is the experience of gender based violence and trauma. But because of so common, of course, that's why the trauma informed care environment is so important. And not only that, we employ that methodology on site a down to women's center, but we're also training the community in trauma informed care.

We have a whole training department, where we've we've helped corporations understand what that looks like and means in their companies. We've helped other homeless service providers, of course, or government. We've we've trained some city council officers and some police departments. I think it's like, an opportunity for systems change if people start to really adapt. Mindset of of not what's wrong with you, but what's happened to you? I can see a real a real shift in how people are treated in all different. Are you really serious that there is a shift?

Yeah. Or at least an understanding that trauma is kind of a health condition, like it impacts your brain and it impacts your ability to think clearly. And people can heal from trauma. And it impacts your physical health. Yes. Yes. 100%. Yeah. So I've seen a greater awareness in that. I'm a licensed clinical social worker. When I went through my social work program, we were not really talking about trauma. And that wasn't too long ago, but now we're all talking about trauma. That's kind of amazing. I mean, I ask because we're in this bubble where that's pretty much all we talk about.

So I have to think, is this just going on right here, or is it really, you know, happening out there in the world, which I'm I'm thrilled to think that it would because. There's been some a shift. Yeah. Because nobody is just innately bad. There's no such thing. And you know, the idea of punishment because you're bad is. Just the worst. It's the worst. Yeah. There's no healing to be had that way. And that some individuals, though, are strong enough to. You know, really go inside and, and manage to have success on their own is unbelievable. You know, I kind of like the idea that we all can say, you know, could you help me a little bit?

I mean, I think that if we could ask that question and hear that question and have it be okay on both sides, that would change the world. We were talking with. Shadi also worry about one of her assistants, and I mentioned it to you earlier who was in prison for, I think 32 years. And, you know, he worked so hard at the end of that 32 years, like the last eight years. He finally realized, I have a life to live. And this isn't it. How am I going to find that life? What am I going to do? How do I get myself out into the world again? And you know, he he worked so, so hard and, you know, really healed and came out into this world and is just doing these fabulous things, helping promote what it is that you guys do and what she is trying to do.

And I say that because I think that we don't give people enough credit for, you know, really having a deep, loving soul, you know, at the at the base of us, I think there's a lot of kindness, tenderness, goodness and to keep punishing people is not letting this shine. And how amazing to have his lens writing are public policy. Yes. Yes. And there's there's a lot of good intentions when you're writing public policy, but you have no insight into what people are experiencing at the margins, like you're going to miss it and he's not going to miss it.

It's awesome. And, you know, for him to come here and speak with us and, and share his story and, and how his life has changed and you know, where he started and where he is now. I mean, man, I that's it's just so much proof that we're more than most of us give ourselves credit for, right? So thank you for helping to promote that in this giant arena that you do promote that in. Can you paint a picture of a typical day for someone who comes to your organization for daytime services. Yeah. I mean we open up around seven and most people just need breakfast.

So are there people standing outside the door ready to come in. Yeah. Yeah. And they so they start with breakfast and do most of them stay all day. Yeah. Yeah. Next is our we sign up for showers, sign up to meet with a case manager. We have volunteers that come in, do a range of of activities throughout the day that could range from karaoke and bingo to, an educational class on a an a health topic. We have spontaneous dance parties. Sometimes celebrate the holidays. Of course. Are there any, qualifications? You can come in and spend the entire day here, but you need to at least have a case manager.

Or you need to at least make sure you have a medical appointment on Wednesday. Or can you just come in and hang out? You can just come in and hang up, but that doesn't mean that the the doctor's not going to come to the her table and introduce themselves or a therapist saying, hey, you know, this is what we do here. We have a, peer specialist, someone who's come through our programs employed with us, and she's very effective, too, of, like, helping people, decide to go into the health clinic. I see, or helping someone decide to do something other than what they originally thought they would do all that day, which is just so wonderfully be part of your safety net.

But there is a chance for them to take a new step. And what's it like at the end of the day when those women need to go back to that other world? Yeah, that that's hard on the heart. Because a lot of our literally sleeping outside, some might be in a shelter bed, right? Yeah. A majority of whose coming to us is literally homeless. So yeah, the end of the day is a little harder. And that's a strange balance. I mean it's way better to have what you're doing for these women during the day than not to have it. But to be faced with this in sort of horrific process all night and then come and have a warm experience during the day.

It almost feels like. To be switched. Yeah. We're 24 hours. I mean. For sure. We would love to have a 20 Rent-A-Center. Yeah, but it's like three steps forward, two steps back. You know, I, I feel good. I made some success, and now I have to go out into this frightening existence. And we we acknowledged that, too, that that might be a reason that someone for example, isn't opening up in therapy. Because they kind of have to keep it all together to survive another night. So I'm not going to sleep. Let it all come out, and then I feel really vulnerable.

Through the night. It's a protective mechanism. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And then some of the women of course live with us permanently. I mean we currently have two buildings, 119 units that we own and operate, but we have additional 500 units in the community where we're supporting women in permanent housing. And then, excitingly, we're under construction for 97 new units. I saw that expand our campus. That is awesome. It is awesome. And those women can live in this housing for as long as yes, they want. Yes. So, like you and I, they would they sign a lease.

And as long as everyone's in compliance with the lease, they're they can live with us. As long as an average people stay. About seven years. I guess. So. People are moving into more independent housing or in some cases moving into less independent housing, like a nursing home or assisted living. Yeah. And there is some small amount of money that they pay everything they do. They pay 30% of their income. Whatever that is, whatever. That is, 30% goes to rent. Are most of the people that are living in those apartments are elderly women? Yeah. 50 and above.

And we find that the experience of homelessness ages people. So sometimes we see some geriatric conditions for folks that are in their 50s and 60s that you wouldn't otherwise see until 70, 80. So maybe some cognition problems or, like early onset diabetes, like just interesting things that, yes, that their, their health has been compromised because they lived outside. That's interesting. We were talking with a neuroscientist, Doctor Tracy Bell, and she was talking about how stress and trauma can truly change your cells in terms of age. And so you could be a 38 year old, but have a cellular system that's much older than your than what you would imagine for a typical 38 year old.

And so even just the idea of trauma, whether it's happening now or something that happened in utero or in childhood. That all delivers. Really. Yeah. Generationally it's pretty fascinating. That's good work to get out there. I think that's the evidence of a shift. Too is I love it. It's fantastic. It's putting a little science behind it and we all like to have something tangible right. So I'm back to the typical day. How do these small, steady supports treated with such intention and respect open pathways out of homelessness, even beyond residential programs?

So the things that you're doing during the day can affect people in a way that maybe they don't need your residential program, but they end up moving on. Yeah, I think the exposure that we provide, whether it's a volunteer group coming in and and sharing about something, maybe helping people and their career path, we like how we intentionally interact with everyone helps create more opportunities for people to. So we have a program called Girls just want to have funds. So we have volunteers teaching on like how to set up your bank account and how to manage your money.

Things like that creates opportunities. Yeah. And and just this being in a community. Yeah. Some of our participants who are, are working in our cafe or in our kitchen, they're getting their safes or certification, which is required for restaurant work. So we're providing like real certifications that help people move on. I've had residents come down with a binder of certifications that they received or graduation from our advocacy training class or graduation from How to Manage diabetes class, like these certificates that. So I frequently take that for granted honestly.

But like helping honoring and celebrating, what people have learned. And so huge is, you know, I'm sure. Or if I go to a residents unit, all of the, certificates are usually hanging up on the wall and means a lot. Yeah. And it creates opportunities. Such a I can only imagine how how meaningful that is when. You when you. Have had an existence where you're really just trying to make it from one minute to the next. Yes. Okay. How does the Downtown Women's Center support families? Our core work is to really work with the the woman herself. But of course, a majority have children.

Some children that are in the care of others or the system or some children are already adults and on their own. So a majority of the time is working with the individual. But of course, we're also working with families about 100 at a time or in our care. Frankly, we do try to get young children out of the Skid Row community pretty fast. There's not that many schools or amenities. It's it's uncomfortable. So from a children's perspective. Does that mean that the children there are going into a foster care program? Well, if, if needed. Or are you trying to help the mother and the child move on together?

You know, finding shelter at a different location? I see, yeah. Or pain for a hotel for some time or, just really trying to. We're really trying to keep the family together so that the experience of homelessness doesn't separate them. If it's if, Yeah, we're just usually they want to stay together. It would seem, though, that too many of these women have already experienced the loss of their children because of the situations that they found themselves in. Yeah. I mean, homelessness in and of itself legally should not be a reason to separate. But if a basic need is compromised or if the child's not eating enough and that happens pretty quickly.

Yeah. It's hard to keep it all together. And then it, you know, hopefully you're working with the social worker within the child system that understands that and is trying to get the family back together. Is that as soon as possible? Is it? Is the reunification process doable? Is it. Doable? But what's hard is to find housing fast enough. And to, you know, find a one bedroom or a two bedroom that's affordable. That's where things get really. It's not that the parent isn't capable of parenting. It's literally you can't afford housing that can accommodate everyone.

And when you're not right when the Downtown Women's Center isn't the right fit for whatever reason, maybe someone has a severe drug addiction issue that's beyond your scope. How do you figure out how to refer them to other places? Yeah. We will frankly say, like, I think your needs are going to be better met over here. Can I take you there? I've set up an appointment. Can where can we have a call with them? Yeah, it's more about, like, what's in the best interest of the individual and making it clear to them that we think there's a better service.

And is there a network of agencies that you're all referring back in? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It's it's amazing because all of this is occurring and it's kind of. At. Least from my experience in Los Angeles, it's kind of an underbelly in that most of us don't know how hard so many people are working on trying to lift up these communities that are sort of on the margins. It's it's been a really big learning lesson for me and what you're doing and the people that are with you on the same plane. Is. Awesome. It's just amazing. And I feel like there's a lot of negativity that's thrown at this, this world of people trying to help others who are marginalized.

So keep having a big voice. Thank you. How are you funded? We are speaking of having a big voice. I know, about 60% of our funding is from the government. How's that going. And. Well it was more last year so it's precarious. Fragile. So do you, do you pick up that loss with private funding. We have this far. So people who have individually supported us have have stepped up. Foundations have kept their support. But that's really where our attention is. I mean, the advocacy is on the government side, but our attention is people who've known as the longest, who understand what we do, who understand the current context and climate and are, you know, I'm not assuming that any individual or foundation can actually make up for a large government grant.

So of course, we're also making some harder decisions, but our goal is to keep our core services. Everything we've talked about today. Remains. Remains. And we will be constrained to some degree in our growth. I see. Yeah. And what are some of the things that you feel like you need to let go of. Yeah. It's the moving the rent payment programs impacting like what would be new people. So if you're in our, if you're our participant or our resident, we're doing everything possible to maintain that. But tomorrow I might not be able to house someone who's new.

Yeah. Yeah. So and just frankly I think Los Angeles should brace ourselves for an increase in homelessness because it's not just Downtown Women's Center, it's every organization facing the same cuts. And having to deal with it in a similar way. Yeah. Yeah. So what's harder now is that we have to say no more to the people that are walking through our doors. And it's just, it's so twisted because now there will be more homeless people on the streets that'll make more people angry. It will make, you know, those people in charge say see. The you didn't know what you were doing.

You mishandled it. The word fraud comes up a lot now which like I have not witnessed. I mean you know, but it people feel like oh we've thrown more money at this and we don't see the results. Well we divested a lot of money for decades and we're just picking up. As of last year Los Angeles County has 30% of all those experiencing homelessness, which to me says we had 30% of the money we needed. Yeah. And it's a lot. But it obviously wasn't enough to get to 100%. And what do you expect it will be this year. Yeah. Oh I think we'll house probably about 25%.

Yeah. That's noticeable. It's noticeable. If you could change just a few policies, just a few tomorrow, what would most quickly and meaningfully reduce women's homelessness in Los Angeles. Now that we just said that's not happening. Yeah. Right. Yeah. More money for rent. More long term subsidies. Your traditional section eight voucher is needed for those who need it. For a long time. And then more short term like short term, meaning maybe two years of rent payment can really help people get back on their feet. And then you need we get phone calls of people who have.

They're just on the edge like they can't pay rent next month. And if we could get to those people faster, then you wouldn't have people entering a long process of homelessness, which is far more expensive than just paying their rent for a couple months. I dream of a time where we can only focus on prevention. Yes. Yes. So is that. A big calling that you think that you address that you're. There's a woman who's desperate. If she doesn't pay this month's rent, she is definitely going to be in a homeless situation. And then once they transition into that homeless situation, you're saying that it becomes much, much more difficult then to get out of that than it would have been to just pay the rent?

People in public policy space talk about basic income. Universal income. Yes. If we which you kind of could imagine like our Social Security is sort of that. Yes we all pay into it. But is there another way to do that. And usually all the pilots that have been done for years and years show that it's cheaper to do that than to let people fund homelessness and that people spend their money wisely. And that system is in place in some parts of the world. Yeah. Yeah, a little bit. I mean, well, from what I've seen, it's mostly pilot projects that maybe don't continue.

But they're always evaluated and they show good results. Yeah. So what if we had more public policy that steers in that direction giving just like the affordability isn't really getting more affordable. That if incomes raised then maybe we have less expensive social problems. Yes. And some of the opposition to that is that then. Well, most of us will just become lazy. And these pilot programs are kind of proving that that's not the case. Time and time again people are paying their rent. They're providing opportunities for their children. They're, paying for certification programs that they can get a better job.

It also just gives them the psychological space, like we've talked about stress impacting decision making. Like you can't it's hard to make decisions when you're under so much duress and stress. Yes. I mean, if all you can think about is how you're going to feed yourself or your children. That is sort of all encompassing. Yeah. Beyond four walls. Really? What makes housing truly supportive? What are the human elements that help someone not just get housed but stay housed? Of the women who live in our housing, 98% do not return to homelessness.

And I think the secret ingredient there is the relationships that we build that we get to know. Everyone is a unique person. We tailor the care to their unique circumstance that changes over time. And is that pretty unique, what you're doing relative to other agencies doing similar work? I mean, nationwide success looks like 80% of housing retention. We, with all of our, amazing individual and foundation donors, provide a lot of care that government doesn't pay for. For example, all the medical care, we have a registered nurse and occupational therapist.

That's why we haven't figured out a way to put that on a government contract. Yeah, but it helps. Yeah. There's so significantly helpful in identifying the safest way for someone to live in their unit. Like, maybe a grab bar is needed and that prevents a fall which would otherwise have resulted in a trip to the emergency room. Yeah. But with an assessment and with coaching, like, we can prevent things that are expensive emergency room visits or nursing homes, that we have fun. We have a lot of. We get to know each other. And the apartment dwellers then also begin to have friendships and relate to each other.

And said advocacies and our mission. We do advocacy work with people who live with us. So we're we're doing public comment together at city council meetings or meeting with Board of Supervisors or conducting tours together and just doing the work together. Yeah. So when we spoke with Father Greg from homeboys, he spoke about that, the participants advocating right alongside him, as if, of course, of course. That's what you're doing. I mean, why wouldn't it be any other way? I love that. So now you never see Father Boyle alone? Yeah. And it's best.

Yeah. Because, I mean, he's in touch, obviously. But when it comes from the mouth of someone who's, who's been through it or the staff member, it Assembly member is obviously. Yeah. It's different. And when you've been in those situations, if, you're bringing along someone who is advocating from experience, is that person heard? Yes. There I find that people like pens go down. Right. Like people stop looking at their cell phones. People look up and they, usually express gratitude or something like it hits in a different way. We never can control the results or whatever.

But I, I think it's always, it's, it's always in the memory of the staff member that we met with or the elected official, and that somewhere in there that will inform their policymaking. And that's a pretty new concept really. I mean, maybe a few years old in that this is an important way to actually, you know, sort of bring attention to a real problem from someone who's really experienced it. Something with us, without us. Yeah. Yeah. And that kind of goes along with. In. More recognition being given to people are not they're trauma. People are not bad, you know.

A bit trauma is worth addressing that. No judgment needs to be put there. So in this work that you're doing, I mean, I think you've pretty well answered this. What does love look like and what does love look like on both sides on the really difficult days? Yeah. I bring love in to the work and how I lead my staff in the organization with things that may not sound like love. Things like clarity, transparency, predictability, safety. I find that is a loving way to lead, to help people feel a part of an organization that is really meeting their mission.

So conveying our results, celebrating our results, bringing others into our work. We we don't do this in isolation. I can't lead in isolation. I think that is a way of expressing love is like being an organization that generates community and builds community. Yeah, I think there's so many ways to express love, but I really find that just being as trauma informed as possible in our work. We know when we say trauma informed, we don't mean that's what the clinicians are doing. We mean that's what our facility staff is doing and how we're leading and how our board of directors is governing Downtown Women's Center.

That we are understanding the impacts of trauma and trying to combat that all the time. So it's as if there's no one on board who does not believe that trauma is is worthy of being addressed, and that you can still see eye to eye with someone who has trauma. They're not to be dismissed because of their trauma. And is that a pretty easy thing to find in terms of finding people to work a downtown women's center? Is it our most of the people that are interested in the position getting that? Yes. I mean, that is what we're looking for. First and foremost, a lot of our staff come as volunteers first, so they really get to know us and they have been in our training, and have that have that bent.

I find that you can train on the technical staff. I have a harder time training on the how to express love, how to really be in community, that kind of stuff. But you can usually see it, foremost, when someone volunteers to you, you can really just see it in action. Sure. So yeah. Or not. Or not? So for those people that are listening today who would want to help, what actions big or small actually move systems toward justice and healing. And we're talking about this a lot across our podcasts. And you know now that you're listening to us and you know how important love is and you know that you're not bad and the people around you aren't bad.

How can you do something to help, big or small, with a particular community politically? What do you suggest for us? Gosh, so many things. First of all, it is like just to normalize it does feel overwhelming given how the numbers but to kind of move past that and, you know, maybe connect to a community based organization that you know or trust to learn more, to educate yourself. I am a citizen on my own, frequently call our elected officials and just remind them that I think housing is a good thing. And, being a yes person to housing, I think is very helpful.

And and are you leaving a message or are you finding someone receptive on the other end, or do you feel like you're heard? Oh, it's usually a message. I wonder, too, of some of us think, you know, there's so many people with time and there's so many people volunteering. I I'm not going to make it. Dan White yeah. They probably don't even want me. Yeah, we do, we do. In ways that maybe we've charted, like come cook a meal or help sort donations or bring in your own skills. Do you feel like you can really help someone build a resume or teach them a craft or lead a dance class or something like that?

Can really, we have volunteers in the do book club or current events. So there's ways to bring your unique skills. Obviously donating. Yeah. Incredibly helpful. It is the only way we exist. But listening, reading our emails, following when we say take action and like tell you how to do it, calling an elected official or, donating this exact thing that we need. Maybe we need 100 blankets. That's right. You have a fabulous list. It's a great list. Yeah, we keep it updated. And we really need what's on that list. And if it's not on the list, ask us first.

Yeah, we might need it. I would be really mindful in what people donate. Just to make sure that it can actually go to someone. It's staff resources for us to collect and sort donations. And we're, we're always seeking what, what we hear the women need. Exactly. Yeah. That list is really valuable. Thanks. Do you have, or do organizations have a waiting list of people who want to volunteer? Sometimes. Sometimes. Or it's just a matter of not if but when, you know, getting it on the schedule. Yeah. Over time. What imprints does homelessness leave on trust, identity and relationships, and what have you seen?

Help women slowly and bravely rewrite those patterns? Yeah. There's nothing more profound than overcoming trauma or healing from something. And I've never. Maybe never is too strong, but I do hear women, to some degree express gratitude for what they've been through. Not that it ever should have happened. But when you're on the other side, how much more strong you feel, how much more aware of your skills you are, how much more aware of other people's pain you are, how to be more empathic and understanding. I just hear more understanding. When someone's kind of gone through their own journey and own arc.

So it's beautiful and it's profound. Again, it's never should have had to happen that way. Yes. But that's what I see. Doctor Bell felt like all of us are born into this world, almost all of us, with some amount of trauma, and that the trauma we carry becomes more important than the person that we really are. And I'd like to think that your services, this safety net, this getting people back on their feet, would allow people to get to a place where they could feel safe enough. Now to address the thing that was the trauma, so that they can stop carrying it, which is a big process.

It's a big process. And it's, you know, not most of us can't afford the services of someone like Doctor Bale or one of his peers. And of course, Doctor Bales passed away. But I feel like if we listen to his message and understand his theory, we can kind of begin to pick up little snippets and apply them to ourselves. And of course, my hope is someday his theory will be taught in schools of psychology and analysis. But our hope here is that we can help the people that you're helping know that they don't have to be carrying the weight of that trauma.

Yes. We do a lot of, training on breathwork to things that are accessible to anyone and free. So there's there are ways, like you said, though, there's not enough access or so many of us can't afford the actual skilled clinical work that we need. Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here. You really appreciate what you do. And thank you for helping. Us. Bridge the gap between Doctor Bale's theory and the very real streets of Los Angeles. So for those of us who are interested in helping on some level, either with funds or volunteering, how do we find you.

The best ways on our website? Downtown Women's Center, York. Easy enough, easy enough. And that big list is there too. Our donation wish list is always there. And by the way, you have a very nice website. Yeah, I. Like it a lot. I like it a lot, too. Very organized. Thank you again.