Holistic Psychoanalysis: Generational Trauma Revealed Through Dream Interpretation | A Case Study with Dr. Loren Weiner

Transcript auto-generated from the episode audio; formatting has been cleaned up, but wording is verbatim.

Hi, I'm Cynthia Marks. I head up the Holistic Psychoanalysis Foundation established by my late husband, Dr. Bernard Bail.Welcome to And Now Love, Dr. Loren Weiner joins us today to talk about dreams. We are thrilled to have her with us and cannot wait to dive into a dream or two, talk about interpretations and how individuals can use their dreams to delve into their unconscious and discover their best selves. So far, we've been talking about Dr. Bails theory very generally. Today, Loren and I are so excited to share the particulars of a patient's journey toward a better life through dream interpretation.

As you follow along, you will discover the ways in which Dr. Bails theory absolutely applies to each and every one of us. Without a doubt, we can all become our best selves and live lives that are fulfilling and meaningful, both as individuals and as an integral part of humanity at large. We will start with the first dream of one patient beginning her therapy. We will continue with her subsequent dreams and you will see progress being made in addressing and removing trauma with the ultimate goal of finding one's true self. Hi, Loren. Thank you so.

Much for having me. I'm so excited. And this is really going to be an interesting session. We're finally here. I am so excited to share this. We've been walking around this and now. Right. Actually going to have our viewers and listeners participate. Right? Right. We're finally at the what the whole point of this is, is to show how our dreams help us. What they tell us about who we are and where we can go. Okay. I mean, I already have questions, but I'm running off. Okay. I can't wait to hear what you have to say. Yeah. So today, what I'd like to do is talk about a patient.

And this patient is a young woman, late twenties, figuring out her life. And this isn't. When you said trauma in the intro, this isn't a person where the trauma is overt. We will get to dreams with people who have that in their history. This is just a person who I think if you saw her on the street or met her somewhere, you you as a regular person. And I think she herself wouldn't say there's any trauma here. But we all have some kind of drama. We all have some kind of trauma. And that's the underlying piece of Dr. Bails theory, is that actually there is a trauma.

It starts at the beginning. It is what happens when we receive an imprint. And just to recap, an imprint is the unwanted, unprocessed, unconscious feelings, thoughts, ideas about ourself that we all carry, but especially that women carry that is transferred to the baby during the pregnancy. It's unknown to everybody, but all of this negative content, negative feelings, negative experiences get put into the baby and it actually splits the baby's mind. You know, he'll say, How do you know this? We will see it in dreams. But it splits the baby's mind and the baby because this idea is felt to be so painful emotionally, so painful.

What's it? And walls it off. And basically we're never going there again. So now we've got this part of the mind that is separate and not inactive. Separate. The wish is that it no longer impacts us, but it does. In fact, it impacts everything we do. So we've got this imprint and it really is a trauma. This is the first trauma. So we are all walking around having already experienced a trauma. And then the question is, okay, what kind of trauma did you get? What was involved in all of those feelings? What did it look like, given your mother, her history and her ancestors?

What did that all look like and what did it do to you? What cost? What happens to you when you have to experience this blow wall it off, and then try to go on with your life as though it didn't happen? So we all have this, therefore we're all traumatized. Now, I don't want to minimize. Then later, big overt traumas for people. Yes. But people have to know, in fact, that sits on top of a trauma that's already happened, that happens to a person who's already compromised. In essence. So you can see why that's going to to split the personality or impact the person even more than it might.

So it's almost as if you have a bigger exposure to the possible of some serious trauma if you aren't able to overcome this normal trauma. Right. And you definitely do. There's no question. It's like it hits you on the fault line and you don't know what the original trauma is for anyone because we don't get t shirts. I wish it were that simple. Right? You know, here's my imprint. We don't. So you never know where something's going to hit. What's already sitting there quietly. This is a woman who I think, you know, as I'm saying, would generally not be considered a traumatized person.

And she ended up in my office because she had imagined certain plans for her life. You know, I'm going to grow up. I'm going to get this career. I'm going to end up in a relationship. I'm going to have a family. And it wasn't working out. It didn't mean she was able to to go to school and get an advanced degree. Again, looks like she's got everything made, dated. People had relationships. Nothing was quite working out. Again, you'd say, okay, what's what's the big complaint? And I think she felt that way about herself. But I'm not. Happy. But everything seems okay.

Can I really complain about this? Can I really try to make it different? Am I entitled to that? All of that. And do I know we want to get into this, but do most people come to you with a similar set of circumstances? Not really. Big, scary trauma, but just kind of these familiar issues and we're not able to get to the bottom of them on our own. It runs the gamut. You know, a lot of times people show up in your office because something big has happened, a divorce, family split, depression, anxiety. I'm going home every night and I'm you know, I can't eat.

I'm terrified or I'm not getting out of bed suddenly. And so it really runs the gamut. I'm starting here because I think this may make sense to a lot of people who wouldn't think, this is something you go to therapy for. I think this is something that a lot of people just live with. And in a way, it's akin to saying I'm just going to limp around with this sprained ankle or a broken leg. But everybody does. We all have broken legs. So it's just a broken leg. Right. When you talk to somebody, if you didn't have a dream, it's all right. I mean, you know, okay, you got some complaints.

I get it. You know, life didn't quite work out the way you wanted. Okay, It. Goes. And then you get dreams. And then the dreams start to show you. wait a minute. This is more than you thought. And there's a reason this is happening. There's a reason you feel the way you do, and there's something we can do about it. And it becomes amazingly clear. If you're lucky, it becomes amazingly clear. What I did do is pick some sessions that illustrate some big ideas that patients come in with unconscious, honestly. So these are the things that they have no idea about when they start treatment.

But that become clear, clear to me as the treatment goes along. But of course, my job is to make it clear to the patient. Yes. One of the biggest things that has to happen in a treatment is you have to have a really get a really good picture of what happened in your life. What's the emotional truth of what happened in my life? Because if you don't know your story, you can't change it. You don't know what you're fighting. that's so easy to understand. This woman, you know, was not happy in her life. I'd say she just wasn't satisfied. She had tried all these things.

It should have gone the way she wanted, and it wasn't working out. Sort of just didn't know what to do. Where do you turn? Where do you go? And she was lucky enough that she had a friend who was talking about having seen a colleague of mine who worked with dreams and was finding it interesting. And my patient, well, I'm interested in this. It luckily, right. It just caught her attention. And so she ended up in my office. And I think when she came, I think even she wasn't sure. Should she really be here? You know, is as you were saying, is this really enough to come see somebody about to talk about this is am I just complaining?

Is there really a problem here and something that could be fixed addressed? And of course, the answer was yes. Yes. And how fortunate that she was able to come to you because you know how to do this. Yeah. Luckily, we could get to the dreams. What happens? Typically, I'm going to go through some typical stuff for those people who have never been in therapy. One of the things that I think most therapists do is you want the patient to start talking. You want to hear what's on someone's mind. So sometimes in the beginning I might ask a few more questions.

Generally, I want to get somebody's history. I want to, you know, first and foremost, I want to understand what brings them into my office. Why are you here? What's been your your experience? I might want to know if they've had prior therapy. If so, what did you learn? So I'm asking these sorts of questions, but mostly I just want the patient to start talking. Tell me your story. Tell me this on your mind. That's probably going to tell you more than them just sort of blatantly saying, I'm here because of this, this and this. They may say, I don't even know why I'm here.

But once they start to tell their story, you can get a glimpse of why they're there. Right? Right. So I'm I'm just listening in a way to what the unconscious pulls up for them. So the unconscious is always going. It starts right away and it's going to have the patient talk about certain things. Right. And when I say that, it means, you know, certain things will just come to mind. Like you might end up talking more about your brother and your sister than you know how bad your car is running. I mean. Yes, hopefully you get two things that are important.

Anything's interesting to me. Meaning if somebody were to suddenly start talking about something like that and my car in this, I'm thinking, okay, why is this coming up? Right. Right. So I'm always listening to sort of think about what is somebody talking about and why? What is what are they trying to tell me? What do they want to show me? They chose this to bring to me. Exactly. And this is a beginning, right? So in a first session, we're looking at a beginning now, keeping Dr. Bail's theory in mind for our purposes here. He's saying, but everything happens at the start.

And that's true for therapy, too. That's good to keep in mind. Right. So a first session is really important. And what somebody starts with is really important because this is the start. I say all that and I didn't bring the first session because what I wanted to really show was something that a lot of people don't know about themselves but become clear when you start listening to their dreams. And one of the things that you will see in this session is a piece of what is holding this woman back in her life. And this is a few months into treatment, which means she's coming.

We're talking dreams are coming up, and she's starting to learn that her unconscious life is really important in how her waking life goes. Through the course of this. Does she become greatly interested in that? Like have a thirst for more and more? Yes. Over time, though, you know, I don't know that this is immediately like, wow, I didn't know this was going on. This is amazing. I think at first it's really how can I trust this? How much stock do I put in this that feels right. But nobody's ever talked to me about this sort of thing before. So what do I do with this?

Right. And how did we end up on this instead of that and that or that? Right. In terms of an interpretation. Right. And and I think one of the things that comes out in the beginning of a therapy is all of the family history. And sometimes people get to that right away. They can see the connection and sometimes people don't they don't realize that there's a connection or they've not thought about certain dynamics in the family in the way that it becomes clear in a treatment have impacted them right. So someone may come in and say, well, my family, you know, thinking that is this is going to be an important part of what you talk about.

We're all we're fine. I don't really see any issues. So where else should we go? But right there, you already know something, right? This person doesn't even want to go there. Yes. So you're listening all the time and that's a clue. And my question is, are they allowed to think about the family that way? Are we allowed to imagine that it wasn't perfect? This is something where you might complain to your best friend about, You know, my mom said this to me again, but it's another thing to come in and tell a professional I have a complaint right.

And a lot of people grew up and so did the patient in homes where complaining about your parents is forbidden. Yes. You don't do that. Yeah. They are feeding you, clothing you, educating you, whatever else they're doing, and you really don't complain. So the idea isn't that you're going to come into therapy and all we do is talk about your complaints, but in a way, having the freedom to suddenly have a different kind of conversation where your mind is allowed to notice things and notice the things that didn't feel good to it, and then talk about them.

In a safe place and not feel like you have to feel bad about yourself for saying these. Things. People will feel bad about themselves if that's the dynamic, right? If you weren't supposed to, then how do you come in and start talking about the dirty laundry? That might take time. People often will say, Well, why am I talking about stuff that happened so long ago? It's not relevant, or I don't think about my parents anymore. I've got my own kids now. I don't think about them. Why Why are we spending time on that? And a lot of times what you have to do is just let the dreams pull the important pieces and the dream will lead you where you're supposed to go, tell you where to dig.

So in the first few sessions, I want to just give a little history on this woman so people can kind of relate to her a bit and understand we're going to call her Jessica. Okay. Okay. So Jessica comes in and she tells me some history about her family. In the beginning, when she first comes to see me, she does give me some background about the family. She told me that her mother's side is from the east Coast, from a big family. Jessica says that her grandparents were people she saw a few times a year, were generally nice people. She did say she knew they weren't always that nice to her mother when she was growing up, but by the time they were her grandparents, they were nice enough.

And and that was that. Let's see, she knew they were strict with her mother when she was growing up. And she also knew that girls in the family were not treated equally to the boys in the family, so that the boys were educated. They paid for their education. The girls were not. The money just wasn't there for that. And they were sort of expected to get married and the husbands would take care of things. She told me that her father was from a wealthy family but who had lost all their money. And so there was that shame and sadness and upset sort of flowing through the family.

She did note that a lot of discord in that family, you know, siblings weren't talking to each other, grandparents that had been falling out, you know, all sorts of things. Then she told me about her immediate family. And one of the things that she did focus on who and a person who was talked about more in the beginning of treatment was her older brother. She was the middle child, had a younger sister and an older brother. And the older brother was a thorn in her side. A lot of times he wasn't all that nice to anybody. I think a smart guy, good sense of humor, but not very nice to people.

And she felt that and and nobody really talked about it in the family. He just sort of did away with it, got away with it, and then the rest of the history would sort of emerge as the treatment unfolds. So I'm going to jump into the first session. We're going to talk about it's not the first session in treatment. Okay. So she's generally got the hang of things at this point, though, when somebody starts talking, usually, you know, I just if they don't immediately start, I just tell them, you know, start with whatever's on your mind. And then I try to be quiet.

So even though I may ask a lot of questions about dreams, I want to be quiet. If I'm able to in a session enough to let the person just talk, say whatever comes to mind. So she does and she starts and, you know, just sort of talking about the things in her life. She said things are going fine. I'm swamped at work. So much stuff for work to finish. But I'm I'm close. It's almost done. I felt a little overwhelmed, I guess. So you start getting a little hint. There are a lot of loose ends to tie up for the case. And then some social stuff. A bridal shower, some parties.

I'm supposed to help out with food and decorating, and I can't start thinking about that until I finish everything else up. I guess I'm more than a little overwhelmed. Then she switches topics. My friend Dave is still around. I feel like he would like more from me, but it isn't to say that I'm not sure that I want to take it there. Things are complicated though, and I really value our friendship, so I don't know. Is it worth it? I don't know that I think he would be a good match for me romantically long term. He's a great guy on paper, but I don't know if we really want the same things.

I also don't know how long I can keep it in the friendzone without it getting weird or one of us moving on and actually starting to date someone. And I can't imagine what that would be like. I guess I don't know what I'm doing. I want his attention, but I'm not sure I really want to date him. Does that make me an awful person? I'm confused and really unsure about what to do. I feel like I go through this a lot. I like a guy, but then I'm not sure. Is he good for me? Should I do it? Or is it better to wait until? I'm really sure. I feel like I don't know if I'll ever feel like it's right.

So maybe I should just try it and see. Wow, that's a familiar scenario for so many people. Yeah. And then she said there were a few tough moments this week. I've been noticing that there's just this weird vibe in the family, like all this stuff goes down and I feel like it doesn't really get talked about. It's all kind of under the radar, but I notice it now, and I tried to say something the other night and it was not well-received. We were all out for dinner and I just noticed that there was these jabs that my brother would make towards my sister and towards my mom.

My dad would just ignore it and sip his wine. And I felt like it's the same stuff I've been telling you about, but it's bothering me more now. I'm starting to see it more. So I just made a small comment about how he was kind of being an ass and he didn't really say anything, but I could tell my comment was not well-received and like he didn't want to be called out for being a mean guy, but he was being a mean guy. He isn't always, but he can just cut with these little comments and then he sort of sits there like they aren't mean. I didn't do anything.

I didn't say anything wrong. Get over it. And I asked the patient, Where do you think you learned to do that? And she thought for a moment, maybe my dad, he used to do that more when we were younger. He's mellowed over the years, so he's different now. But maybe my brother took his place. It isn't overt in his comments or always couched in humor, but they cut my sister seem relieved to have me say something because I don't think she ever wants to really start with him. She isn't as quick witted as he is, and I honestly think she's afraid to start with him.

But that means she just has to take his shit. And I asked because this was at a family gathering where everybody was there. Did your mom say anything? And she said, No. I think she's always afraid to get in the middle of the kids arguing like she worries one of us will be hurt thinking she's taking sides. But instead, maybe we're all just upset that she never chimes in like we would have to drag her in to really get her to referee. So I've gotten a sense of what's been going on, what's on the patient's mind this session. That's a lot. That's a lot, right?

So if you're the therapist, you're thinking, what's the most important thing Where do I you know, if I'm going to say something about this at some point in the session, what do I choose? What do I pick? What's the most important? Well, I don't know that I would know at that point. I might have some inklings. This sounds like we're going from up here down to here. All right, So I'm watching the progression of not only what she talks about, the affect, what feelings start coming up. Right. And in the beginning, she starts to it goes from everything's fine to O8.

Maybe I'm overwhelmed. wait, maybe there's some stuff in the family I'm starting to notice. wait, something happened. I ask her if she had a dream. She said she had a dream last night. In the dream she was at her friend Robin's house and it was 11 a.m. in the dream. She remembered that and I think or hear from other people in the house that she's still sleeping. Robin's still sleeping. I get angry like she needs to wake up. But then she comes over to me and she is awake. There are two of her. I think she's wearing a long caftan with a big chunky necklace.

I think I'm surprised there are two of her. We're in a big house, I think, and that's the dream. So what I always do is ask people, just tell me whatever comes to your mind about the dream, and I want to leave it as open as possible. So let's see what the unconscious wants said so she says, because she's she's used to this now for a few months and she gets the idea that she's going to tell me a dream. I'm going to ask her what comes to her mind, and then she's going to tell me whatever thoughts as much as she can do it without censoring, which is called free association, Just tell me whatever comes to mind.

No censoring. Well, if if possible. So she says, I have no idea why I was dreaming about Robin. I haven't seen or talked to her in quite a few years, maybe four or five. I like her. I think we're like in some ways and people confused us sometimes in elementary school. But I think she's much more type-A and things seem to go better for her than for me. I kind of admire her, though. I don't think I would switch places with her. There are some things I would like. She's really good. Socially, she's more comfortable than I am. She walks into a room and owns it.

I definitely don't feel that confident. I feel like I can talk to people pretty easily, but I'm nervous underneath. I don't think she is, or it really doesn't show. Things just seem to come easily for her to like. She never seems to be working that hard and she's enjoying her life and I feel like I'm never quite where she is. I'm just not as comfortable in my skin as she is. I'm not sure that it reads that way. Like I know I look out going to everyone else who knows, maybe she feels the same way. And then I ask her, why is she asleep in the dream?

So I'm now going to, after I've heard her general statement, I may start asking about specific pieces of the dream. If she hasn't commented on them, even if she has, I might go back to them. If I feel I need more information. And so I'm now thinking about the dream and seeing how does this fit into her life? What in her world made this dream this week? What does she want to know? What does her mind want to know to grow? Right. What's it going to tell us about herself so she can move forward? So I ask her, because this is obviously the biggest piece of the dream is Robin's asleep.

So why is Robin asleep in the dream? I don't know. I can't remember that part, But I'm walking around looking for her and I'm angry. I'm upset about it, and I'm not sure why it would make me that upset, but I was. I felt like it was already late morning and I guess I was wanting to talk to her. Or maybe we were supposed to go somewhere. I'm not quite sure, but she wasn't up and it bothered me. I ask her why there are two two robins. I have no idea about that. Both in the same outfit too, which is something she would wear. It was chic in a very casual way, but there was no acknowledgment that she had been asleep or kept me waiting.

There were other people there and I felt like I knew them in the dream, but I couldn't recall who they were once they woke up. I think they were friends, though. Like maybe we were all going to go somewhere together. And I asked her, So why do you think you're dreaming about someone being asleep? Who do you feel is asleep? And she said, Well, that's a tough one. I mean, maybe my mom is asleep, or at least she keeps her feelings kind of hidden. But she's like that in her family. Everyone keeps it all inside. They don't really show any feelings.

And you have to really guess where they stand. I think she reads kind of light and breezy to people because on the outside she's smiling and friendly, but you never get below the surface. It just feels like she is sweet and chatty but doesn't go deep. She'll clam up when I try to bring up anything deep. She doesn't like it and I know that I can feel her shut down. So there was more back and forth I don't want to go through. The entire session will lose people here, but generally I wanted to give you a sense of what's happening. There's a back and forth.

I'm asking questions. The patient is now reflect acting on the parts of her dream. Her unconscious made this dream. Why? Right. This is this is the big question. I think it sounds like you are Robin, you've been asleep because your mother didn't want to go deep, so you had to put your feelings to sleep. They weren't invited in. It sounds like you get a similar message from your brother, who may be a stand in for your father. He's allowed to make cutting comments and nobody stops him. And when you say something, there's no support for it. The message is that you being awake to see all of this is not a good thing.

And it would be better if you would just go back to sleep. So in that dream, you're angry that you've been put to sleep. The good news is there's now also a part of you that is awake. And then I want to see what the patient does with it. I'm looking to see does she feel it? Does she Tell me that sounds crazy. You're totally off base or. Yes, this makes sense to me or somewhere in the middle. And I'm watching because if I get a disagreement in some way, I have to think that am I off that I hit the most important piece, that I misunderstand something?

Or is this to to rebellious, to talk about are we allowed to know this? So I have to see where a patient is with any given interpretation of the dream. We talk a little bit more and she could understand it and she could say, I'm really upset. I'm really upset that a part of me was put to sleep and she could see it now. And I think she had built up enough trust from us going over previous dreams that she could see that she's been asleep to her whole life. And this is why things don't go well. This is why it isn't a satisfying life. You're not even awake in your own life.

How do you pick the right person? How do you make the right choice about a career or where you're going to work or what city you want to live in or anything? If you're asleep to your own life and you're asleep because feelings were not really welcome in the family. And this is going to open up more as the treatment goes on. But we get the hint of it here. There were a lot of additional pieces I might have interpreted. I went to this, Robin, is you because I want to wake her up because the first thing I want to do before we get to what's your imprint, before we get to other things, according to this session, the main thing I have to get to is you are asleep in your own life.

And so you can't explore any of this until you're. Awake. That's it, right? I need a person who is awake or at least engaged in waking up. And to do that, she has to first know she's asleep. Otherwise she doesn't know. She has to wake up. Right? I need her to start being engaged in waking herself up so that there is somebody to then talk to in the rest of the treatment to make the interpretations to there is an awake person to receive them. So that becomes that's why that's the main thing I want to interpret. There's a lot there. You know, other people may say, well, you didn't go through the transference.

This is when you're going to talk to me and put all of your previous important relationships and the feelings about them in the people in them onto me. And you're going. To relate to me like I am some person in your history, probably your mother or father or a sibling or aunt or uncle. And that's really important that is there and we will get to it in a session. I will interpret something in a dream and take up the transference if it is not clear in the dream. But here the main thing is she's got to wake up sound the alarm. Step one. Step one.

Now she's already doing it a bit because we get as there's two. The question, of course, becomes in this dream and I don't know that I would say this yet, right? We've got two. Who are the two. So there's two parts of her. We've got a part that's waking up. Right. Interesting. In the long caftan and big chunky necklace. And in my mind, I thought this is a nightgown. Right. And she's telling me that speaking up the throat chakra with this big chunky necklace is the place where the trouble is. A lot of weight here. A lot of weight here. That's right.

Then I'm also saying, well, this. And she said it. This may be her in her mother. And I take that that's very important. She said it. I wrestle with that a little. Which one do I want to interpret first? I went with her because I want to wake her up. But absolutely, there's no question that the mother also put herself to sleep. And that will likely show up down the road after. So anyway. It showed up actually in this session and I touched on it, but I didn't hit that as hard as the first piece, which is she's got to wake up. And even though it did show up, you can still it'll come up again at a more opportune time to address it, perhaps.

I guarantee that if this is what's happening, it's going to show itself many, many, many, many, many times. And I love that you say I guarantee. Yeah, I guarantee it. I know it will, because it's a central issue and we dream about our central issues over and over and over. We work them through, we pull them apart. We hear something like your sleeping. And while she may go, okay, this is really like, whoa. And I have to think about am I really asleep and wrestle with this? And then she may embrace it sometimes and deny it. No. Right. Don't wake me up.

See? And already there was some trouble there because I'm waking her up, right? I am talking about these things and it's getting her in trouble in her family. Yes. Now I'm a troublemaker. Right? Right. So I know at some point the fact that I am a troublemaker will also show itself somewhere. You're not panicked about that. That is part of a treatment. But you're going to have to make sure you're on top of it, because if that builds too much, I'm too much of a troublemaker. And I'm not helping her with that or making her see where that might show itself.

Somebody might walk a. Fine line. There, fine line there. So I'm giving you a lot of information here because I'm both telling you what she said, what I said in the session and also the things that are always sitting in your mind as you're listening to somebody. I mean, they're rather natural now, so it just pops up. But that there is a whole picture of both the person and the treatment you are paying attention to. So when Jessica realizes that she's been asleep, when she's able to agree with that or feel that, did she look back at her life and say, what a waste, What do I do now?

Or was it more of an opening? Like, thank goodness I discovered this and I can move forward now with some different sort of purpose or with a purpose? Luckily, the latter for her that I think she started going, this is all starting to make sense. I felt like I was sleepwalking in my life. And I came here for a reason. And now we're getting there. And now we're getting there and All right. So it isn't just me being sort of overly sensitive to all of these places in my life that didn't feel good. It's that there's really something there. And what's so interesting about this patient and this dream and why I wanted to start here is that there are so many millions of people walking around asleep and you wouldn't know because these are busy, productive people, They are doing things and they may have all kinds of complaints, but everything is well, it's just life.

And yes, some of this is life. Life isn't necessarily supposed to be just a fun time always. But when you you don't know somebody is completely asleep in their own life until you see the dream, you would never know. I'm not going to get that if she's just talking to me. Sure. Right. And it's a key because I can just talk to her. And if I don't know, she's asleep, how can I ever wake her up? I can't do it. So that's the beauty of this. That's the beauty of having a dream, tell you exactly where you need to go. And one of the big things that has to happen in a treatment to give it a chance to succeed.

Amazing. So we're all so good at managing our lives. Whatever we think of our lives, it's as if the only way you can get to the bottom of it is through these dreams. I think that's the idea. And that's why Dr. Baily loved the dream so much. This was his using the dream to get to the imprint. I mean, that was everything for him. He felt this is really the key to changing the way human beings understand themselves, feel about themselves and each other, and then really turning everything inside. The only way you start to change the world that we're all so externally focused and his and you're missing the whole show.

Everything out here is a reenactment of the internal world for everyone. And you can imagine if you are asleep in your internal world, how how many things can really go right? Maybe you get lucky. Yeah. When Jessica was sharing her thoughts about the man that she was interested? Do I deserve this? Is this right? I'm not sure. I mean, that's. I could just say, Well, she's asleep. She's not aware of her own feelings about that situation in particular. Exactly. And so that kind of concept would could apply to everything in one's existence. It does all the time that once we've had to put ourselves to sleep because the family, wherever we're developing, doesn't tolerate it, you know?

And then look, that doesn't mean people were awful and ogres. And what it means is that, you know, there was just this sort of don't bother me with it. It's too much. And we're not going to talk about the feelings. You ask me something, I'm not going deep. Yeah. And so a child comes away with the message over and over, Don't do it. And then you don't know any other way. You don't know any other way and you don't know yourself. Yeah, and this is an example that, yes, I think is very generalizable because people do this, They have this conversation with themselves about a whole host of things.

It's not just about relationships, it's what do I want to study? What job should I take? I don't know what career path, what do I do about this problem or that problem? And the biggest issue there, in addition to an imprint and we will get to that, is that you can't then access your feelings enough to use them as a compass and you need them. You can't always make the best decision for yourself because you have no basis for that decision. It's all intellectual, you know? So people have to sit there and it's like ten things in my pro lives, ten things in my conscious.

Now what? And there's no tiebreaker. There's no feeling that says, okay, yeah, you know what? This is a really good guy. And I, I am interested beyond all of these worries that I have or I have all these worries because no, he's not the right guy. Listen to that and listen to that. It's interesting. I think when we do our pros and cons, maybe the pros are that big and the cons are that big or the other way around, but you can't even settle with that. You're like, Well, that one pro is probably worth seven of those cons, so. So you can't even get to the bottom of it that way.

That's right. Yeah. I mean circles right? You're running in circles. And that's the whole point of being asleep. People can look in their life. Where am I running In circles. Why isn't it going anywhere? What's happening? And really, it's. Then can I be in touch with the deepest part of myself? How do I feel about this? And then she also shared that she had the experience with her brother. She knew enough to know that some of what he was doing was not okay. She was feeling that and she called him out a little bit. Right? Yeah. And he shut her down as if she should go back to sleep.

Like, don't even try it. That's right. And I think that's what probably triggered the dream. Won't you just go back to sleep? And so we don't get a forceful dream, right? This is a very. I'm going to this nice house and big and it's easy and she just happens to be asleep and then I'm enraged. And even the patient, I don't think I should be that angry about this, but I am. Yeah. So she was enraged with her brother for having shut that down. But nobody's really going to talk back to the brother and the brother. She was right. The patient's right.

The brother or I think I might have said it in the interpretation. She's connected the brother and the father. So a lot of the the talk, what becomes clear is a lot of the talk about the brother. Well, it is about the brother also has a thread, a tie back to the father, the father who is now more mellow because he's much older but was hell on wheels when this child was very young and growing up. And a tie back to the mother, perhaps because she was silent. Exactly. So you can see all the pressure, right? The brother is overtly sort of like, I'll let you say it, but you get the look.

Don't go there. And then everybody else is silent and therefore complicit, allowing this. The mother said, we're not going to talk about feelings and then doesn't step in. Right. Doesn't shut this down. So all of these ways in which this woman gets the message, your feelings aren't important. They are frustrating to everybody, quiet down, go back to sleep and don't rock the boat. Right. Then we'll all survive. Well, I'll survive. Wow. Well, gosh, thank you for all of that. Do you have more on this first dream? I have so much more. No, I don't have more on the first dream.

I think we covered the first dream. Okay, so we're going to go on to the next session. This is not the next session for the patient. We are now more months down the line. She is continuing to do this. She finds it useful. Interesting. It's making sense to her. That doesn't mean everything makes sense to her. There are still lots of questions, but I want to go over this dream because we finally get to an imprint dream here. And I think everybody's going to want to hear what an imprint dream sounds like. Yes, right. So now there are a few kinds.

Sometimes we get ones where you see the imprint being delivered that is a much usually a much more violent type dream. Not always, but generally. And this is more about what the imprint is for this person. I see. Okay. So this is going to be critical, critical information for this patient to know. Okay. Okay. So I'm just going to jump in. In this session, the patient starts and again, I am sitting back just letting the patient tell me whatever's on your mind. When you do that. Yes. Are you completely open? You don't have little hints of where you think it should go?

Well, usually that's at the beginning of the session, so I don't know anything yet. Right. And so every session I am sort of saying I have no idea what's going to be important. I know the person, but every session is new, right? So everyone, I have to try my best to just listen and let whatever comes into my mind come in to help guide me. Okay? Okay. So she says, I've been pretty frustrated this week. I guess I kind of feel like crap. I feel like I can't quite get things moving. I've been applying for more positions and I get an immediate response and it all looks good and then it kind of stalls or disappears altogether, it's killing me.

I just want to find the right place, the right place to be. It really should not be this hard. I have friends that are doing so well and I be doing what they do if I just get a chance. I just need to get in the door. I can stay where I am for the moment so it isn't like I won't have a roof over head, but I want more. I want a better place where I can really grow. Then she continues, and to make things worse, all of this career stuff was on my mind and I couldn't enjoy my date night with Brian. I'm there, my body was there, but I just couldn't enjoy it.

I was looking forward to this night for so long. It was with a few of our friends and it was a band I hadn't seen in a long time. This should have been a really good night and I was just not able to fully appreciate it. He was so sweet and we went to this really nice restaurant before the show and he was being really romantic and I was just sat inside. I tried not to show it, but I know he could tell. And then thinks it's him and I don't want and I don't love him enough or like, he didn't plan it. Right. And it's none of that. It was great. It was just me.

Like I couldn't get out of my own way and just have fun. Let it all go. I guess it'll probably work out. So that's how she starts the session. I'm listening. All right. Where are we going? What's she going to tell us? So I asked her. What did she dream? She tells me I had a dream that was really hard to remember, but I think I got it. It was about a password. I think I know this is hard to follow. I go back to something like an old neighborhood, and I realize that there is a zero in a password that I need. And I feel like this is why things can't go right for me in my life.

Maybe it was a percentage sign or an ampersand, but I think it meant the same thing. It still meant zero in the password that I needed and that was it. It's a short dream. I started with short dreams. I know everybody is familiar with the long epic we've all them, but for the sake of our discussion, I also wanted to start with some that you can wrap your head around. You don't get lost in right away. You can follow these. And this is a beautiful one. It's economical, but it really gets to the point. I again ask her, Just tell me what comes to mind about your dream and that.

Okay. And she was quiet for a while and she said, Well, it makes me feel like maybe I'm not just not worth anything. Like, am I really is zero. I mean, that is crushing, but maybe I feel that deep down I'm not sure. I feel like sometimes I have a lot of confidence and then other times it's in the toilet. I worry, Can I really do the jobs I'm trying to get? Am I just a fake? I've done well in the past, but it is like I can't consistently hold the feeling that I can do it. And I get so anxious and I ask her, what was the password for? And she said, I think it was so that I could get back into the old neighborhood or the old house, like I had to punch in a code.

But my mind started with in my mind it started with a zero and it just hits me in the dream or right when I wake up. That's it. That's the problem. My code is a zero. It starts with a zero. Now I'm moving through this with her. I'm reading it a little faster than it was going, and I'm certainly sitting with the feelings because the feelings coming up are big here. And you want this. This is where all the action is. It's right there in the dream that brings up a feeling. Later, I ask her, Why are you going back to the old neighborhood? I don't even know why that would be.

Maybe it's the first house where we live. Maybe where I was born. I'm not sure it seems like it. Or a combination of a few old homes. I don't think I get a good look at the neighborhood, but I know it's an old one. I go back with a mission. I think I wasn't just going back to look around. I was trying to get something to find something. I'm alone and walking around. I think there's a code saying, you know, one of those things that sits on the door where you punch in the code like it's modern, but the house is old. I met the front door and I realize all of this is about the password.

Now, I will say, of course, what's running through my mind is, my gosh, look at what she's telling me. And she's felt it right. This woman is intuitive. She already got it. I'm a zero. What? What does this mean for me? She's she's already felt that right now. That's amazing. And she happens to just be very intuitive. I didn't have to make a big leap there for her. Of course, the other thing I'm listening for, right, is things aren't going well. What she's upset about this is now I have to also be thinking, right. Is is this a complaint about the treatment to what's here now?

I think here you don't want to spend too much time on the complaint about the treatment. Not that that isn't important and may absolutely come up later. But here she's given us such a big, important piece that I think you want to focus your energy there. So I said, I think you're going back to the old neighborhood, the old house, which is really your mother. That's the old house where you started. And you're saying that being there meant you had to be a zero like she was. That is the password and why you feel you're a zero and can't get ahead in your life.

And the patient was quiet. And finally she said, That makes me cry. I think my mom's parents were so hard on her, they didn't treat her like they treated her other siblings. She was considered the pretty one. They just wanted her to be pretty, but not to know anything. They figured they could get rid of her by marrying her off. I think it just left her with no real self-confidence and no feeling that she had something to contribute or to do in the world. I think she's always a bit embarrassed around her peers that she worked but never felt she had a career like a lot of her friends.

Like she didn't feel she could or should. I think my dad liked that she worked, but I also think he wasn't threatened by her jobs because they were just jobs to her and not a passion or something that would take her somewhere. And I said the night out should have been fun. But if you're a zero, you're not worthy. It will color all kinds of things because this imprint keeps you from your true potential. The dream says First you have to be a zero your mother. So we have to see all the ways in which that has formed your life. So that is her imprint.

That's her imprint. Now, what we will see many sessions away is that she has more than one imprint. There's one that's hidden, and we're not going to get to it for a long time in the treatment. But this is going to be the main imprint that she's wrestling with in this section of the treatment. And does she need to come to terms with this one before she can address the other imprints. That's going to be up to her unconscious. She's brought this one up now. Now we know about it. Right. So she said, look here, here's one pair of handcuffs. This is something that's going to hold me back because I have to do my life the way my mother's done.

Her life. And I don't feel my mother has really lived up to her full potential. She wasn't supported in doing that. Her parents didn't even want to educate or just kind of go be a pretty face and have no substance. Well, okay, but how happy and satisfied can your mother be that she didn't get to do what she might have done in the world? What a common story for women. What a common story for women. Hey, women, you get to be a zero, maybe be pretty. Go have some kids. great. Keep the status quo. Go Feel like a zero. We're not going to educate you her support you.

And this is, you know, not that long ago, right? Get a job. That's cute. That's cute. Isn't that nice? Yeah. And then go have the babies. So feel we're not going to support you in feeling about yourself. And then carry this on to those babies. Right? And then you go and have babies feeling this way. I'm a zero. I'm a zero. Amazing. We talked about imprints before I sat there. Simple. You know, Dr. Bill is always saying they're really simple. They're one sentence things. Here it is. Be a zero like your mother. So you can see she would have to be put to sleep.

How else? Okay, I've got to be a zero. So any feelings, any thoughts, you know, of of real substance that I have, I better start putting them to sleep. Right. So that's what in part the sleep was covering up. Yeah. Don't to know that. Don't know that below that go to sleep Why don't you. Because otherwise you're going to realize that you know. You're going to make this discovery. Then what do you do? Well then you might be angry with me, family, all the characters, but certainly a mother who unwittingly. I want to be clear about this. This is all unknown.

We are all doing it. And by the way, men are passing on imprints, too. It's just that the mothers comes first because that's where the baby starts. And mothers are passing these imprints on to their boys and their girls. Absolutely. Everybody's getting one and it's all unknown. That's the point of this. And the reason you need a dream. I don't know that she was going to get to, I'm actually supposed to be a zero by telling me that she wasn't getting offered job position she thought were a sure thing and that she was having a bad time on a really nice date that some guy took her on.

There's real problems in the world. What is this? But when you get underneath you go, wait a minute, The life isn't going right for really good reason and you have no idea. All of this is under there until you get to the dream. And that was what Dr. Bail wanted everybody to see. Used the dream pointed in word. Get to know the territory and you're going to find out what shackles you're wearing. It's awesome. And you make it seem so simple. I just love it. It's just we have all this information running through us and most of us never access it. What an opportunity this provides, right?

Every night you go to sleep and this kind of stuff is being given right there. It's right there. Now, this is like a cliffhanger, I suppose. Well, this is a cliffhanger. I wanted to at least let people see. All right, look, we've got a person who's asleep and part of being asleep meant and the reason why she was put to sleep unconsciously, nobody said, hey, you go to sleep, you're not allowed to know anything. But this is what happens amongst human beings. We are always unconsciously communicating and telling people what they can do and say, whether overt.

Sometimes, you know, it's very overt, but often it's just silent but you know, it you know, you can't step out of line in whatever way that is, unconsciously. So she went to sleep and part of why she was asleep so that she didn't know she was supposed to be zero. Now this is out right now. Her unconscious has heard this and she's going to do whatever her mind is going to do with this knowledge. And we're going to hopefully get to come back and look and see. All right, Now what? So you learn this. What are you supposed to do with this? How how does this start to change things?

And hopefully we'll get to see that in subsequent sessions. So dream number three, Dream number four will talk about those in an episode upcoming. Yes. Because people want to see it. All right. You do all of this work if they're going to subject themselves to coming to therapy and talking somebody and remembering their dreams, what are they doing it for? And Dr. Bail really thought you're doing it so that you can learn who you really are, Who who is this woman if she doesn't have to be asleep and doesn't have to be a zero. What a gift to humanity she can be when she can operate from her true unencumbered self.

Right? Like the rest of us. What a gift to humanity we can all be. And in the ways that we can change the world. It sounds so sort of overwhelming or glorious or farfetched, but it's the only way. If you imagine that somewhere this woman is really angry because she wasn't allowed to be her true self. Where does that anger go? Because if feelings aren't allowed in the family, she's not going to be angry with them. It's got to go. Somewhere, but it's going to go somewhere. And now we're starting to get the roots of why we go to war. Where is it going to go?

Who's going to be the aggressor or the group or the person that one imagines really did the harm? If your mind has to be asleep to knowing where it really came from, nobody outside the family made her a zero and put her to sleep. That all happened very close to home. But if you can't talk about it, it's got to go somewhere else. It doesn't go away. It doesn't go away. Well, thank you so much. I'm completely intrigued and can't wait to talk about dream number three with you. Really appreciate all the effort put into sharing this with us. Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you for letting me show how powerful a tool this can really be. I hope that came to people that you just don't get to know any of this until you see that thing we all do every single night, that dream. Well, I'm intrigued. And if I am, I'm. I know our audience is. So again, thank you. And thank you all for watching and listening. And be sure to come back because it's intriguing and follow us, Ask us questions. We're here. See you next time.