Dreamwork Analysis: Reconnecting with True Love with Dr. Lauren Dolinsky

Transcript auto-generated from the episode audio; formatting has been cleaned up, but wording is verbatim.

Hi, I'm Cynthia Marks. I head up the Holistic Psychoanalysis Foundation established by my late husband, Dr. Bernard Bail. Welcome to And Now Love. We are welcoming back Dr. Lauren Dolinsky today. Lauren is a psychotherapist with a practice here in Los Angeles. She has an incredible understanding of Dr. Bail's work, a love of the process and its life changing outcome. Lauren so generously shares her knowledge and her feelings about the knowledge with such eloquence and grace. So hello, Lauren, and thank you. Thank you for coming back again. Thank you for having me.

Today, we're planning to further discuss the feminine our feelings side. Please give us a brief description, if you wouldn't mind. I know we've gone over this before. The difference between the feminine and the masculine and what those terms mean in terms of this work. Yeah. So, you know, the way we use them here is it's not really about gender, so we're not talking about man woman. We're talking about parts of any person. And so the feminine, when we talk about the feminine, we're talking about the feeling side of a person, the intuitive side, the receptive side.

That's what we mean when we talk about the feminine. So sometimes just say the feelings side, and then the masculine is the more intellectual side. You know, all those other things going out and doing. Whereas the feminine is receptive. Being feeling. So, yeah, we're talking about that again today. And to that, I feel like a lot of us have come to sort of stereotypical. We think of the feminine as meaning the weaker part of us. How did we get to that? We talked a little bit last time about how I think for almost everybody, that side of a person has been very devalued, shut down, puts asleep in a lot of ways.

There hasn't been a lot of value placed on the feeling part of a person. And that shows up in a lot of different ways. And I thought, you know, after our conversation last time, maybe we could elaborate on and clarify certain things, because we did talk about when people are a bit disconnected from the feelings side. And I think maybe some people could have had the understanding of, they're just talking about people who are numb or maybe they use substances and they're not really feeling much. They just feel a disconnection. So today I thought we could talk a little more about actually, there's probably plenty of people listening who would go, That's not me.

I feel a ton of things. I feel everything. In fact, I feel, you know, an overflow of things. And it's too much. It's too much. Yeah, I think you're right. I think a lot of us might have been listening and going, Don't we all have some right? That's not me. I feel a lot of things. So. Great. Great. Yeah. So, you know, the question becomes, what is the person feeling? Because what we talked about is how ideally the feeling part of a person can be used to guide the person in their life. It becomes a compass for somebody. If if we have a healthy feeling side.

But so many people, and especially if there are a lot of feelings in overabundance and maybe people are riddled with anxiety or or fear pain, a lot of the negative feelings we see that what they're actually feeling is an overflow, usually from the parents unconscious. Often, you know, first moms, maybe dads to really depends on the person. So really what's happening is that it gets a little confusing maybe for people sometimes because they're not necessarily using their own feelings. And can you give an example of how that might present itself?

I mean, it shows up in so many different ways, but a lot of times what happens when there is that overwhelm or the overflow? Is it often comes with a certain confusion, like, why am I always having this emotional experience? Right. And what what we're looking at is then the mind becomes so clouded with the toxicity of the overflow that you can't really use those feelings as a compass. It needs some cleaning up to see who we even have there. Right. Because there, you know, the example of someone unconsciously really being a parent, all of a sudden they might even catch themselves in that.

I could just hear my mother's voice coming out, hear my father's anger, whatever it is. And so we don't actually have the real person. So you have to move mountains to eventually be able to discern between the two, between what am I really feeling versus what I think I'm feeling or a feeling They're not. My feelings are somebody else's feelings. We lived a life one way all this time. Right. How do you know the difference? Right. That's where the dreams really can help. That's where the dreams can help. And that that takes time to because everybody's so different.

So everybody has their own unique individual story and emotional story of what happened to them. So as we get the dreams, we start to clear things up and we start to see. That actually sounds more like mom, that actually sounds more like dad. And we start to clear things out because people have been so inundated. And the dreams might initially even show. I hear lots of for instance, people will have recurring tidal wave dreams, right? They're just inundated. And there is an overflow. A really common one, too, that you'll hear is a bathroom. Maybe there's a toilet, a gross dirty bathroom with a clogged up toilet.

That's just overflowing. You wake up thinking, Why am I dreaming that? Yeah. And it's not a good feeling to go. I have nowhere to go. I have nowhere to go. So you have a dream like that. And when we start to think about what that actually means, what is the overflow of toxic, yucky junk that now is in this person's mind? Now they have to deal with. That's a pretty common dream. That's a pretty common dream. I mean, most people have had some version of that dream where the plumbing has just gone wrong and there's an overflow. It's gross. You know, there's not a working bathroom.

Right. And you have no choice but to be in that space. You're just in it and feeling stuck like I have nowhere to go. So, you know what? Oftentimes a dream like that is showing is that the person didn't have anywhere to really relieve themselves of all this overflow of what they were feeling, maybe mom or dad or whoever was too preoccupied with their own overflow of emotional material, whatever it is, that there's no real place to go, cleanse themselves, relieve themselves. And what. Yeah, what we will see in time too, is a good therapy. It's not so glamorous, but sometimes we become the working toilet or the working bathroom.

That's where people can come and relieve themselves of the toxic material they don't need to carry anymore too. That would it be that without going through this process of doing this, each generation just piles on more, There's a pile up, there's an absolute pile up. And so that's what we talk about a lot in this work, because people will get very protective of their parents and think, you know, they're not bad people. They didn't really do this. But we have to look at what's happened generationally. Right. And humans have just been through so much.

Can't deny. It. You can't deny it. So this feeling, part of a person has just been through an enormous amount generationally. So a lot of times when that feeling part of a person gets so overwhelmed that you can't even really use it because you go, it's just too much. It's because there has been such an overflow generationally. Now, this is a popular conversation right now. People understand that there's such a thing as generational trauma, epigenetics, all of these things are becoming more and more known and talked about. So again, we just see that the way it's transmitted is via the imprint, it's via the unconscious.

But that information coming from that knowledge about epigenetics and generational trauma is all for the good. Yeah, it's helping us. we have to know. We have to know what we've been through. There's been too much denial. It just doesn't work. Masculine and feminine. A lot of what people will do is they will turn to the masculine, the intellect, to try and cover up all the damage that's been done to the feeling part of the self generationally. So we have a lot of very smart people who who don't know how to deal with this part of themselves, of their lives in this way, of their family, of the emotional worlds of the children, you know, of what they got from the parents.

It ends up making a big mess and the intellect just can't solve it on its own. A person can be so smart, so, so smart. And unless we start really attending to what's happened to that feeling side, nothing really changes. You were speaking of you know, we're in denial. So oftentimes about our feelings where they came from or didn't come from and the trauma. And I feel like a lot of us work really, really hard to protect our parents. Not just in the womb or in infancy, but throughout our lives, right? That's right. Does this happen where someone's in therapy with you and.

And the first things they might want to talk about it. Everything was fine. I left my parents. They love me. That's all. Good. So check that off. We don't have to go there, right? all the time. Does it help patients when you look back further generationally or even at the history of the world and you say, look at these things that we're doing as humanity? I mean, why wouldn't that just continue to shift down to the very base of your family? Of my family? Does that make it easier for people to accept that maybe everything wasn't perfect? I think so.

I think a lot of times what can help people kind of bridge that gap is we think about what was it like for your parent, let's say, mom as a child in her family? Chances are, it just wasn't perfect. There's something. There's something. And we take that idea back. So what did Mom have to experience? What did she have to hold? What did she go through? Like all of those things stay with a person. They don't just magically, even if she grows up to be a pretty lovely person and have a marriage, have a life, have a career, all of these things, there's still an unconscious there that has been through what it's been through.

And those things are felt. Those things are felt. So it's not that all of a sudden we're going to discover that mom was actually a monster. She's actually a really scary, bad person because I think a lot of people worry, What are we doing here? Like, I don't want to talk bad about my family. Yeah, that's the last thing most of us want to do. Yeah. You know, I mean, there are of course, there's cases where there's obvious difficulty, there's obvious abuse, there's obvious illness, and and people can come in and go, Look, this was really hard. And then, okay, we start there and look at what happened.

But like you said, there often are times where people go that part was okay, but then we have to make sense of, okay, so what what are you struggling with now? What are the difficulties and what's underneath all of that? Because it gets confusing for people. People will start to think it's just me. I'm just the problem. And the purpose is not to just blame the parents. The purpose is not to be like, you're not the problem. It was your parents or the problem. We just look at the reality of what's been passed down and how much a person is carrying that's not serving them, that's preventing them from really getting to be themselves.

What Dr. Bail discovered is that we have a real crisis. There's truly an epidemic of people not really getting to be themselves, not really getting to be themselves. They don't know that they've had to take on so much from this unconscious overflow so that actually they in order to survive it, they said, okay, okay, mom, I'll take this on. And for my own survival, I'm actually going to become you. That's how I survive. And sometimes they go to dad. There's other influences as well. Everybody influences everybody. We focus a lot on mom and dad because those are the big figures.

Usually in a family. Obviously every family is different. There's different players we have to see. There's all kinds of things that can happen. But we're talking really basically because getting back to basics, what Dr. Bail was talking about is that when we come into this life, our very, very first contact is with the mother in the womb. That's the first contact, right? And that a lot actually happens there. It's not just a lot of people think it's just this blissful time. You're just developing, growing and swimming around. You know, you're enveloped in love and it's warm and it's beautiful.

And then you come out into this harsh, cruel world and then the trouble starts. It's not actually your already experiencing all of the troubles of the world via mom's unconscious. So Mom's and all of her unprocessed material, all the things she hasn't attended to in her life, all the unaddressed pain. And again, generationally, generation, really. She's lived a full human life, and so did her parents, and so did those parents and back generationally. And there's a lot then that this little being that is developing in the womb is being hit with hence a tidal wave being completely inundated.

And I want to be careful, too, because I talk a lot about like big dream themes that show up like the clogged bathroom or a tidal wave. And we have to look at the specific dream because sometimes, you know, a tidal wave might actually be a reconnecting to feeling that might be overwhelming and like, my God, I've been disconnected. Now here comes a bunch of feeling. So it depends on the individual. We have to look at what's happening with their life, their dream, their story, and their associations to the dream. Because one thing that I think is worth clarifying about the dreams and getting in touch with this feeling, part of the person and the feminine unconscious because in Doctor Bill's work, the feminine unconscious is so key to a person's healing.

That's the most healing, nourishing part of the psyche that that's where real healing comes from. We're talking about that. That's the archetypal nourishing mother. It connected the spirit to connected the spirit. So he needed us, wants us to all have sort of constant access to that part of ourselves, if we can. That would be so helpful If we can have access to that part of our mind, that really helps us. For one, we get to be more ourselves and we start as we clear out some of this trash. What happens is there's more space internally for the person to be themselves.

So they might you're still going to have internal mom, an internal dad. You're just not always unconsciously going to them in any given situation. And like now we've got mom in the room, now we've got dad in the room instead of now we've got you. Yeah, we've got the person. But so when we have a dream though, what we really need, because I think sometimes when we talk about this, people might think, you know, therapists like us are just we have the magic keys and we hear a dream and we can just unlock the secrets and, well, we'll heal you. We plug in some information.

We plug in info, I'll tell you everything you need to know, and then we carry on. And on some level, that would be really nice. That would be so. Nice, right? That would be so nice. And look, sometimes, of course, sometimes I hear dreams and I get a very strong sense of what I'm listening to. But there's still there's always a process. I need to hear what the person thinks about their dream, what they feel about it. I want all of their associations, the person, a patient, and this kind of work is really put to work. I need them engaged with it.

If they're going to get somewhere with this work. It's not just me telling a person what their dream means. And this is the therapy. Now we're putting your mind on it because this is the deepest part of you saying, Hey, listen, I have a message and we want you to start to expand your mind. This is how a mind is grown. This is how maturation happens. This this is yeah, this is emotional development. Is getting a person to think about what their unconscious wants them to know about their own life, you know, And the dreams will detail your entire life experience from the perspective of your unconscious.

That gets hard for people too, because I'll go, I know my story. I can tell you from start to finish, you know, consciously what I've been through. And good, good. We want you to have a good understanding of your conscious story, let's say unconsciously, to what you've experienced, because you've got these two parts, just like we have masculine and feminine, we have conscious and unconscious, and then to go even deeper, the unconscious has a masculine unconscious and a feminine. I know. So there's all these layers, right? It's wonderful. It's beautiful, right?

We're so complex. We have multitudes. That is beautiful. So should I even ask, what is the difference between the masculine unconscious and the feminine unconscious is that big topic for another day we. Can talk about it a little bit now, maybe come back to it as needed. But it's a similar idea as what I was saying about masculine and feminine in the conscious world. It's the intellectual side of the unconscious and the feeling side of the unconscious. So it's just those same ideas about the analytical, intellectual, more masculine, versus the more feeling and intuitive feminine.

It's just that it's the unconscious part, the part that the person doesn't know about, depending on how much resistance there is to feeling. A lot of times people will start with the masculine unconscious and you're still kind of working in the intellect arena because the feelings are so protected. Would what Dr. Male would call the internal saboteur be part of the masculine unconscious? That's a good question. I don't know what he would say. If it's. If it's one or the other, it's. It's just the force in the mind that's protecting the imprint from really being known, understood and changed.

Right. Because the mind an imprint is is so powerful and it gets so linked initially with survival that a person will feel if we start to monkey with this and change it, I'm going to die in it, kill me. So the saboteur actually comes in to protect the person from having to re-experience pain, from having to go through all those difficult things that we got rid of. We got rid of that stuff, right? Look how you're doing. You haven't had your go there. You're fine with it. Yeah, but the problem is a person it so long as that's still in place and functioning in the unconscious, a person isn't really getting to be themselves.

And they're stuck with all these patterns in their life that they don't get. They don't understand why, and they don't know that there's this thing happening in their unconscious that's creating a lot of trouble. So that's the real work, right? Is wrestling with what you're allowed to know about this part of yourself and how much you're allowed to change it. If I knew unconsciously from the onset that I needed to kind of keep the status quo, let's say with my dad. I would unconsciously be saying, Why don't you just act like dad? Because if you act like dad, you can't be doing anything wrong in his eyes because you basically are him.

So is that like a starting point where I try to pick an avenue to keep myself safe and keep him safe? Because now he's not going to have to be upset with me or get on my case or feel threatened by me because I'm just like him. That could be look, that's that's a pretty specific but also, I think probably a lot of people could relate to that example. So if we have a dad who's has those sort of authoritarian qualities and it's my way or the highway and you better fall in line, then absolutely. That could be you learned unconsciously in order for me to get love.

Because also what all of this comes down to is love, right? Is love. And survival. But it's an inverted version of love. It's not real love. It isn't. It's not real love. And that's what is so important for people to get, because what happens is they have this convoluted idea of love and then they go out and find relationships where they're re-experience seeing love. And guess what it is? It's not love. It's not love. And people wonder why? Why this again? Why this again? To answer your question. Yeah. And then unconsciously go, okay, Dad, I go.

I guess I better, you know, be you. I better do things like you because that's how I stay connected to you. That's how I get your approval. You're going to love me. You're going to take care of me. Stay safe this way. But that's then hard on the person It is. Yeah, too hard on the person. So, you know, a lot of what we see is in the feelings side of a person as it's been through what it's been through and endured what it's endured, a lot of ideas get flipped. So a lot of really important ideas are twisted upside down. We talked a little bit last time about how feeling, which is such an essential part of a person, the feeling part is so essential, gets turned into something really threatening and scary and something to be avoided at all costs.

And you will see all manner of dreams where one feeling comes in. Maybe it's portrayed as like a big, scary animal. I mean, last time we talked about, you know, the spider that gets beaten and it's portrayed in such a way where it's bad, where it's bad, and that's upside down. That's upside down. And then we have all kinds of things. Then they get turned on their head. And this is why then the person might not be able to use their feelings self as a compass or guide because things are too twisted around. You don't have a good compass if you've made something that's not love into love, which is so common, that's so common, you are not going to have a good compass.

You are going to think you're going towards love and guess what you're going to find. So this is why we want to do a lot of clean up work. We're often this therapy. We see themes a lot when people start to do it of like they're coming to class, they're coming to school, they're coming at night school, they're doing swimming lessons. Maybe because we're learning how to get in the water, which is the unconscious and feeling the feeling part. So people start to learn how to navigate the Serena and they start to learn how the mind works. It is fascinating because as you're saying, all that as Bernard and I talked about our dreams, it was kind of the same scenario that you're describing where, you know, first I started with all the big scary animals chasing me.

Wild. Yeah. And airplanes crashing and the bathroom that you can't get out of. That's right. And then all of a sudden I was back in school, and it's just everything that you're saying. That's right. That's right. It's really a back and forth, too. It's also it's not a clear path because there's so much wrestling that happens along the way. So it's not like all of a sudden you come to school, this is cleaned up and you're good. There's such a back and forth all the time. And that's just part of the process. That's how the mind learns and grows.

We have to revisit these things because usually by the time someone comes and talks to me, they're already however old they are. They've had this in place for their entire life. So it takes the mind a long time to start to, first of all, open them, tell the story, and really wrestle with something new. Yeah, there's a reason why real deep, deep change is hard. It's hard. And I think we just on a very basic level, don't even know that we have the luxury of such a thing. I mean, is your life is what it is what it is all. Day long. Right? And why would you think otherwise?

I mean, I'm living my life. I'm feeling my feelings, I think. Right, Right. And yeah, like, a lot of people will think I'm feeling my feelings. I don't know what you're talking about. This is me. And we go, okay, We just look at the dreams and see what the actual story is. And sometimes we see that the person's feelings self is actually, you know, this little wounded animal that's been neglected a very, very long time. And there's lots of imagery throughout the dreams that show a lot of neglect, a lot where, you know, dying vines and arid deserts and a lack of water or a lack of sustenance, no food.

There's so many things that can point to just an undernourished middle of this part, and that's pretty universal. It makes sense. And I mean, it just it's so fascinating that we all have these images that are representing feelings and similar feelings. They're just like this gift. They're just so well, they're inaccessible, but yet very accessible. Right. And in like, what am I feeling at any given point? And this is confusing what's happening. And I want to highlight what you said about the luxury of having this, because being understood in this way truly is a luxury.

It's a luxury. Obviously, we're trying to get the word out more about this. Yeah, right. But it's such a luxury to have this understanding. And we will see that in the dreams, too, that people will point to the luxury of being able to do this. I see. But what can also happen and often happens is that when things are turned upside down, what the person does is they will turn the pain, they will turn the imprint into a luxury item. That you have to protect. And yeah, and it came from mom and it came from dad, you know, especially like this is a luxurious gift.

Yeah, this is a luxurious gift. What do you mean? What do you mean? So I have a dream I could tell you that shows some of these inversions that happen. This is a dream from a patient who was already. This is like a middle of a treatment. So a couple of years, two or three years into a treatment and a very engaged treatment. And so the dream takes place deep in the ocean and, you know, no land in sight, deep in the ocean, there's this vehicle coming apart and the parts are flying everywhere. And the patient feels she's going to be killed by these parts.

Coming up, she's swimming in the ocean. Swimming the ocean, seeing this thing being dismantled. And she has this sense that it's this luxury vehicle like she thinks it's a Porsche Cayenne. So like really nice car but feels she's going to be killed. And then the other thing in the dream and she sees a cushion in the shape of a clamshell, and that's the dream. So it's a really interesting dream because so first of all, in in you know, I'm summarizing. There's a lot of back and forth that happens to understand what's going on. But we've got it set deep, deep, deep in the ocean.

So that already tells us we're going deep into the unconscious. The ocean tends to be the unconscious. So we're deep in there now. Something's being dismantled. Again, this is a person who's well into their treatment. So this is about an imprint coming apart. But guess what? She thinks it's going to kill her. Taking this apart is going to kill me. And it's a luxury vehicle. Right? So this is a really good example of how things get turned upside down in the mind. It's not a luxury vehicle. It's a luxury getting this understood. There's that piece, but that that's an imprint.

You want that dismantled and it's not going to kill you. It's going to save you. Dismantling. And that imprint is going to allow you to be you, to be you. But you see, it feels like a death. It feels like being killed. And it often shows that we get a lot of death imagery and dying imagery. And, you know, sometimes it's a parent being killed or sometimes the person, because these things in the mind need to die. That's a real transformation, right? So we have that coming apart. And then we get a little hint, too, about this clamshell. So that was a really interesting thing because the clamshell, it turns out, could go both ways because for one, clams are very primitive creatures.

They're bivalves. So it's talking about a trauma that happened at the most primitive layer. But the actual clamshell was reminiscent of Birth of Venus. So we've got the idea that there's going to be a birth of Venus. Venus is the feminine. Venus is the ultimate symbol of the feminine. So if you can actually start to dismantle this imprint, guess what you're making space for. But you get to see how confusing it is for people, why you need a good guide along the way. Because, you know, this is why people will leave a treatment and go, You're trying to kill me.

Yeah, I understand. But because you can sort of sense that that traumatic experience that was for her and that these pieces of this vehicle are coming at. Her, it's a nightmare. I mean, this was experienced as a nightmare, right? This was a terrifying dream where she thought she was going to die. You know, it's not like, yeah, we're taking apart my imprint and now I get to be me. And this is wonderful. Like, this is really terrifying. Through her sessions with you and your interpretation together, she's able to feel that. Yeah, I understand it intellectually, and yes, I feel it.

And then by feeling that she can move on or incorporate that more in to who she really is, yeah. She's going to have to wrestle with that. Right. Because again, when we're talking about feelings, the feeling here, the feeling is terror, the feeling is I'm going to be killed. So this is where an understanding of feeling really comes in, because we need to help clear up your mind and go, no, no, here, no, here. This is the deepest, most primitive part of you trying to protect something very toxic. But you turned it into something very nice, right?

It's good that it's coming apart. So you. You need help clarifying the process for the person. And, you know, maybe, though, it takes a lot of faith, it takes a lot of faith in the bigger process. It's not about, you know, me, you have to have faith in me, but in the process that we're getting somewhere. So, you know, knowing what we know about how the mind works, this person needed to hold on to a great deal of faith that, okay, I'm not actually being killed. This is this is good. That's tough. It takes a lot of courage and. It takes a lot of courage.

I mean, I was sharing with you this morning my dream about the sharks and how frightening it was. I thought I was going to die. I thought my children were going to die. And instead of facing and I just woke myself up. Yeah. And I, of course, went, Darn, I shouldn't be having these dreams, but. It's better to have the dream because it's better that we all face the reality of what's there in the unconscious. We've gone too long trying to pretend it's fine, right? Look at the state of the world. Yeah, it's not fine. Not at all. So it's better that we're dealing with what's actually in there as each individual starts to clean this stuff up in their mind, it has a ripple effect around them.

The people in their lives will be impacted by the improvements they're making better. You have the dream with the sharks, so you know, it's always better to know. Knowing that and then feeling that I'm not not okay, that that doesn't turn me into something that needs a lot of work if I just settle with it and say, okay, Cynthia, you had this dream, it was big and scary. You woke yourself up and it's it's potent. So it hasn't left me yet. Yeah, I can help myself to some degree by paying attention to that dream and continuing to feel it and think about it and the parts and pieces.

Yeah, you you will want to start to make connections for yourself. Okay. What were the big, scary sharks in your life? Yeah, right. What are we talking about here? What was so scary? You know, that's what we would be doing in a treatment is talking about what? What the sharks really are. Is it that every dream that an individual has is also a dream for the world? We all are connected. So a lot of times, especially a dream like that? I think so. A lot of times the dream reflects a collective experience since we're all humans and we all go through what we go through.

So we all are connected. But you know, most importantly, when why we do it this way in a treatment is there's going to be something very specific in the dream for the Dreamer about their unique experience, their unique life story. And that's why we can't just say, go, go to a dream journal or go to a, you know, a dream dictionary and look up the symbols and see what your dream means. Plenty of people will come to go. I Googled this dream and I Googled this and I and there might be, you know, some layers of truth and there are some some collective symbols that we often all experience, but it's very unique to a person's life.

There's going to be something about the dream that specific about their life story that needs some real examination, and that's what their mind wants to know. Every dream is in service to the growth of the mind. And your unconscious, as is through your dreams, really trying to get you to come back to your own feeling. Yeah. To stay connected to yourself. To stay connected to yourself, your story, understanding, doing your work, cleaning up your side of the street, you know, so that we can see when these things once you start to get to know the terrain of your unconscious, then you're more familiar with it.

So when you have certain dreams, you start to go, okay, I know what's going on. I know what happened in my life that made this show up. And, you know, you can really start to get a clear picture of what's happening and you can attend to it as needed. I see. So you can say, all right, so I see these guys are coming back again. Why are they showing up right now? What's happening? Yeah, you can make sense of it with everything that's going on around you. And if you know the dream is, like you said, it's trying to get your attention, so it's going, hey, here's something I want you to know.

Here's a message that's important to us, and it usually has an emotional component to it. So. So let's see what that is, what needs attention. Is there more to clear out? You know, is there more to release? Let go of? What does my mind want to know so that I can grow and be more me? And that's a lifelong process, right? It's a lifelong. Process. But but I guess that once you start to see some success, have these feelings that, you know are yours to have, you only want more? Yeah, I think once you start really getting connected. So we talked about, okay, so there's an overflow people can get so confused.

I'm overwhelmed all the time. I keep having these negative emotional experiences. I'm not numb. I feel a lot, but I'm having these painful experiences. Once enough is cleared out that we get a better sense of the story and what's really going on and what's sitting underneath all of those experiences and who's really at play here. Who do we really have? And we've done a lot of work to start to clean that up. The person usually becomes less confused, less overwhelmed. That's when you really start to get the feeling part of a person working for the person because now and people around them will feel because you can usually feel when someone has more space, has more emotional space, there's a safety, there's a warmth, there's a natural compassion.

Yeah, we have to start with the self. So it always starts with having more understanding of the self. But guess what's going to follow? You have more understanding of everybody around you. You start to go, I understand why they're doing this. That makes sense to me. Now I know more about how the mind works, so I see what's happening and inevitably, hopefully we have more compassion, right? Because we see what everyone is carrying and what everyone's going through. And there's just so many reenactments everywhere. But we started to see it a little more clearly, and that is where we get the feelings side guiding us.

I feel like that happened to me. Look, I'm talking about myself today in that perhaps I had an intellectual understanding of what empathy was and I knew what that should look like. And I could speak to the people dear to me and offer up some kind of empathy. But then through this work and it was it was really quite stunning. I mean, it was really noticeable. I had a couple of experiences where I where I was with people that are my friends and they shared experiences that were really troubling. And I had goose bumps and other times I couldn't help it.

I just began to cry. And that didn't happen to me before. Just telling you that gives me goose bumps because it's it's like this beautiful gift to be able to feel that connected with other people. That's right. A beautiful gift. I live so long. Really. Without that. Yeah. And, I mean, I just want all of us to be able to have that gorgeous feeling. Yeah. What you're describing is true emotional availability. Those turns get used a lot. Like people want an emotionally available partner. Yes. When they're dating. Right. But I don't know how much we have a real understanding of what that means.

So what you're describing, when you can use your feelings to connect to somebody else, that's an emotional availability. I think a lot of us are saying that's what we want, but we don't really know what that is. That's right. Well, it's what you describe like a lot of people try to do it with their intellect because they don't know what's happened to their feelings side. They don't know This is not well known. Again, a lot of people think I feel I'm moved by things. I went to the movies and this made me cry and, you know, and because I feel all this, I have my feelings.

But there's so much more I understand some of this might sound confusing to people, but what we want people to know is there's so much more going on in the unconscious and you're feeling self has gone through so much. So that's where we want to really start to clean things up for people, right? So that they can have those cleaner interactions there. We're all humans, so things happen and get messy, but if there's a reenactment of something that's happening, you'll see it a little more clearly. You'll know what's happening. You can take better responsibility for your part in something.

You can see what's happening. And take better care of yourself, take better care of. Ourselves and others around you. You'll take better care of the people in your life. So really, in helping humanity in the best way to help humanity, it's sort of like one individual at a time, killing us, getting us to our feelings, undoing our trauma so that we can come from a place of love and maybe make someone else curious about that. We would hope so. I mean, I think that was Dr. Bails hope that's why this is called. And now love. Yes. Because we need to clean up our collective understanding of what love is.

And to do that, we have to get very clear and very realistic about what is not love, what is not love? What if we had to turn into love that wasn't love? And that's so much of what the process is. And how to feel that it's okay to stop pretending that that's love for the sake of the other people around you that want to pretend it's. Love. It asks a lot of people because a lot of times what people to come to terms with is that they weren't really loved even by the nicest parents. That's what's confusing for people, right? And I was so loved and we have to get a better understanding.

Okay. So tell me what your experience was. What did your life feel like to you? We have to clean up the parts that weren't love. It's not that there was no love. Maybe there was some love. And whenever there is genuine love and understanding and all that good stuff, that doesn't hurt a person. Love doesn't imprint in the way that we're talking about. Not that kind of imprint. It only helps. It only heals. So there's no work to be done there? No, We want space more. We want space for more. So like you say, this is about how we grow and evolve as as people.

Hopefully collectively, right? This is how we become more loving as humans for all of humanity. Right? And and it takes getting very real about what's not love and cleaning that up in our own minds because we all carry it. We all carry a lot of lives. We've, we've all had to take in and really swallow unconsciously so much so much that is not love. So I think getting as as clear and honest about that as possible is better for everybody. It's better for everyone is certainly better for the person. It's just, you know, you're asking people to face a lot.

Yes. If you're like me, if you consider that and you think, well, if I really feel that that was not love and I've been pretending to have that love, and I say, okay, that wasn't love. There's this big hole. There's this big hole. What goes there? I think that's super scary. Super scary. Kind of like the dream is just. Exactly If we dismantle this, if we dismantle this fake version of love, this luxury vehicle. There is nothing. There. Then what? Then the person gets killed. That's actually a good thing. We want the fake self. The false self, the person that's not really the person to die.

You know, the ID being, you know, more mom or being more dead. All of that has to die for the person to really get to be themselves. That's terrifying to have to do this because it's like we say, you actually might feel your dying when we see it this way in a dream and when we have feelings involved. That's what Dr. Bail was really so adamant about, because you need the feeling part of the person and we need the feminine unconscious involved to to really facilitate change because change always has to touch the heart. We can't think our way through it.

It doesn't work. We've tried. Yeah, people have tried a very long time to think their way through these problems and we can't do it now. And it's becoming more and more clear. That's right. It just doesn't work that way. So I think so many of us still think dreams are just nonsense and we just close the door on them. You wake up in the morning and you think, What the heck was that? And you think, I just got to go brush my teeth and get over it. If we just could just open that door and just say, okay, invite that in a little bit. Yeah, just let me.

Just think about this. Just start to think about and if we did that regularly, we might start to get a sense of our true self. Who we really are, Who we really are. Yeah. You might be able to deal with some of the things in our real world that we could point to our dreams as the source of the information. Like you, you have this dream about this big scary bear that and that scary bear represents some situation that you grew up with. And then in the real world, you come across an event that makes you feel that big, scary bear feeling. You can say.

This is the same feeling. Is that what's happening in my world that's making me feel like this? Is that sure you can draw connections, You also will get really in touch with the more creative part of yourself. I think a lot of problem solving. I mean, we know for people, for artists, all of this true creativity flows from the unconscious. So it doesn't mean that everyone has to know this work specifically. A lot of people are more attuned to that part of themselves and they'll know and some people will even say, my God, I had a dream and an inspired, you know, whatever this work of art or this this so many scientific discoveries have come from a dream.

It's something. That is really. Something. Yeah, there's so many. So we want people paying attention because again, it's not just to clear up your own stuff, which I think is very critical. I mean, that's what we're doing in this work. But also you'll be tapped in collectively. You'll get all these wonderful, inspiring ideas. You might even connect to Spirit if you're a spiritual person. Dr. Bail is pretty adamant about that. He really connects you to the source. Yeah, that really connects you to Spirit. Which I'd love to talk about more thoroughly At one point, as well as the creative.

Because think about all the things we would have lost if knowingly or unknowingly, that unconscious had not been tapped. Yeah, well, this is pretty fascinating. Again, thank you. This was really great. I like that we sort of had a little narrow scope today. Yeah, Hopefully, you know, it helps clear up some things that we talked about the first time that maybe needed to be elaborated on a little bit more. I think so, too. Thank you very much. It's my pleasure. Thank you for listening. And please know that your dreams are super precious. Pay attention.

See you next time.